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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #721
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella;2467431;
    It wasn't always that way. The news media ownership is much more consolidated these days in the hands of a few than it used to be, and when there was more of a true "free marketplace" of ideas and info in the media, there were more checks and balances on accuracy.
    Even today, while it's not feasible for dozens of reporters to file first-hand reports on every story, facts can often be checked after the fact. ET's report is an example of that. Not only did they interview Clay, but they seem to have checked what the FBI agent and some witnesses had to say, too. Plus, their verbiage seems to be more conservative. Responsible journalists refrain from speculatively filling in unknown details or substituting emotionally-charged, evaluative words for simple statements of the known facts.

    Check out the original AP story, then check out the headlines some in the media have attached to the story, and you'll see what I mean.

    Objective: "There was a dispute between 2 passengers on an airplane and the FBI questioned the two and some others and filed a report, without any charges being filed."

    Inflammatory and sensationalistic: "There was an 'air rage' incident aboard a plane, involving a fist fight between 2 passengers - an incident so ugly that the FBI had to be called in."
    Grisabella,

    You're using the very same verbiage and misrepresentation techniques that you're accusing the media of using.

    From the beginning, you indicated
    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Witnesses from among the passengers say Clay was asleep on the plane and his foot was resting on his row-mate's arm rest. They say she tried to wake him and when he didn't immediately wake up, she began hitting him in the face. He did not hit her back, but it's reported that at some point he may have used a cuss word or referred to her as a "witch."
    Obviously at this point, if Clay Aiken is to be believed, that information is completely incorrect. His foot wasn't on his row-mate's armrest nor did she allegedly hit him in the face.

    You also indicate
    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Showing their anti-Clay bias,
    accusing the media (and snarkattack) of reporting details simply because they have a bias against Clay Aiken and
    No mention that he was reportedly asleep when his foot came to rest on her armrest.
    which isn't a detail that was given. It has been reported that he was sleeping when she confronted him, but not necessarily sleeping when he put his foot on her armrest. Again, unless he was sitting on the aisle, placing your foot between seats and on the armrest of the person in front of you takes some effort, especially from a man with an allegedly "immense foot" and isn't just a casual wiggle made when someone is sleeping. But you have also jumped to the conclusion that Clay Aiken had his legs crossed and that is changing the story considerably, too.

    and
    e.g., Fox saying that clay had previously "shoved" Kelly Ripa, when that did not happen)
    If you go back and reread that headline... they've never said that he had previously shoved Kelly Ripa. They said that he "was involved in a confrontation and not for shoving Kelly Ripa". The problem isn't with them lying about the previous event, just that you've misinterpreted their meaning. That may have been their intent, but...

    You are correct in that the only reason that this is getting reported is because a celebrity, of sorts, is involved. Sensationalistic misrepresentation of facts can happen in many formats, even on a message board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Also, in your analysis of what actually happened, you are assuming a lot of things not in evidence and not logically implied by what we do know.
    I didn't assume anything in my posts, only asked questions and advised that some of the details as you were reporting them just simply weren't possible. And yes, they are logically implied based upon simple experience and knowledge of what is and isn't possible on an airplane. My only objective is to keep from the "oh, poor, innocent Clay Aiken" slant on the darned topic.
    Last edited by Broadway; 07-10-2007 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #722
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    I think if there is any "poor Clay" in this story, its from the standpoint of the fact the guy is in national news for a minor altercation. However, he's in that situation because of his celebrity status -- the same celebrity status that gets him all sorts of perks I'm sure he enjoys quite a bit. If we're not going to say "poor Clay" when he's enjoying the adoring cheers of his fans, cashing his paychecks, and saying "thank you" for freebies given to him, then I don't think it's really necessary to say "Poor Clay" when we see the downside of fame placed on him (in a rather minor way honestly when you compare it to the bad press of some other celebrities).

  3. #723
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Exactly!

  4. #724
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Argee. Being a celebrity, you have to take the good with the bad, it comes with the territory of being a celebrity. Not saying "poor Clay", he can handle this situation, he is not a child.

  5. #725
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2467324;
    Originally Posted by graycat11
    I also doubt very much Clay deliberately put his foot on the woman's arm rest.

    What makes you believe that? I deliberately put my foot on the armrests in front of me when I need it. In fact, I just filled out a complaint in a nwa survey about the fact that the first class seats aren't built for 5'0 women as our legs are left dangling without a foot rest and we're left with no choice but to try to prop our feet somewhere for comfort's sake. But at least I advised the person in front of me and asked him to let me know immediately if it bothered him.
    You're right I don't know Clay Aiken personally, but 99% of people flying don't put their foot on people's arm rests. I've flown a lot and have never seen other passsengers doing this. I never did this.

  6. #726
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by snarkattack;2467103;
    Nothing. Just a guy with a HUGE ego. I know some people will stop at nothing to defend Clay, and that's fine, but I wish everyone saw his behavior on Mike and Juliet. It really gives an indication of what kind of person this guy is. Which makes me believe he deserved what he had coming to him on the flight. I remember the fan who wanted to meet Clay on Mike and Juliet, she was probably in her late 50's/early 60's. He was downright mean to her.
    Just as people will stop at nothing to believe the worst about Clay.

    You don't know Clay personally but he deserved to be hit by the woman, right?

    Fans who have followed his career since AI2 know that he has a snarky sense of humor.


  7. #727
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by graycat11;2467921;
    You're right I don't know Clay Aiken personally, but 99% of people flying don't put their foot on people's arm rests. I've flown a lot and have never seen other passsengers doing this. I never did this.
    I used to fly weekly, and now I fly pretty much monthly, and I see people doing it on each and every flight.

  8. #728
    That's all folks! Unklescott's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    If anybody did it to me they would have to have their foot surgically removed. That's rude as hell IMHO.

  9. #729
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Broadway,

    Glad no one has ever done that to my arm rest, yet.

  10. #730
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Broadway, the intial reports on the message boards and gossip sites, as well as many of the initial "news" reports cantained conflicting details. That's what happens when there's a rush to get the story out before the facts are checked responsibly. It's also why I think it's silly to speculate too much about the missing details. It's OK to just say something like "There was a minor dispute between 2 people, no one was hurt, the flight was not interrupted, and no charges were filed." Nothing newsworthy happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2467749;
    But you have also jumped to the conclusion that Clay Aiken had his legs crossed and that is changing the story considerably, too.
    I didn't assume that. Some witnesses reported that. But mainly I was explaining how his foot could easily have ended up on the armrest, unintentionally, while he was sleeping.

    As for the Fox News reporter's comment about "shoving" Kelly Ripa, it was a TV news broadcast. I have the video of it. She said Clay "was involved in a confrontation and not for shoving Kelly Ripa this time." She clearly insinuated that at some point he either shoved Kelly or had been accused of shoving her. Neither is true. The tabloid media (and I include Fox News in that) love to suggest, insinuate or imply, without outright stating a falsehood. You convey the message you want while still covering your backside legally.

    My only objective is to keep from the "oh, poor, innocent Clay Aiken" slant on the darned topic.
    My focus isn't on proving Clay's innocence. I just don't see any real evidence that he was "guilty" of anything here. Whether it was Clay or anyone else, I think the way most of the media have spun the story is inflammatory, presumptuous, and sensationalistic. And I do think it speaks volumes about bias when Fox and Celebrity Spider overemphasized Clay's connection to the 2003 American Idol season and chose to totally ignore his post-Idol career or mention that he was en route to a concert he was doing that night. Other media, e.g., EW and the Charlotte newspaper, have been more even-handed in that regard.
    Whatever you think of Clay, he is not primarily known for being the runner-up on AI2. If that were the case, other runners-up such as Justin Guarini and Diana DeGarmo would get as much media attention. He's known because of his popularity on that show and because of the various successes -- yes, and celebrity gossip -- he's had between June 10, 2003 and now.
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