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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #691
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken Part XIV

    Snark, you make it quite clear that you dislike Clay and are inclined to believe the worst about him, including speculating about aspects of this incident that haven't even been reported.

    No matter. I'm not going to try to disprove Pe_rez Hi_lton's "reports" or speculation. His site is a notorious gossip site not terribly concerned with either accuracy or fairness.

    I think this comment speaks volumes about bias:
    Quote Originally Posted by snarkattack;2466319;
    I don't care if Clay was sleeping or not sleeping and I don't care how tall he is. You don't put your foot on someone elses arm rest.
    You can't get much more RUDE then that.
    By the way, this was a small commuter plane, with no first class section (even though one Fox News reporter commented that the woman who "shoved" Clay seemed to have been "cranky in first class."

    And, yeah, Clay is such a has-been that a teeny, trivial little non-story* like this is all over the media the next day. Yep. Umm hmm.



    *Disagreements, heated verbal exchanges, and even minor physical assaults such as a shove or swatting someone's foot happen at airports and on planes all the time, and with today's "heightened security," it's -- unfortunately -- routine for the FBI to be called in to make a report. The plane, reportedly, was not delayed, no charges were filed, no one was hurt.
    BFD
    It's only news because it involved a celebrity, not just someone who was a contestant on a reality TV show 4 years ago.)

    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-09-2007 at 03:13 PM.
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  2. #692
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken Part XIV

    Perfect example of how the entertainment gossip media slant, twist, dirtort and mislead, even without actually giving any specifics (so they couldn't be sued for libel).

    Celebrity Spider is now 'reporting' that Clay was "involved in" an "air rage row." Showing their anti-Clay bias, they identify him only as "American Idol runner-up," with no indication whatsoever that he's done anything of note professionally since May, 2003, much less that he was en route to a stop on a current concert tour.


    -http://www.celebrityspider.com/news/july07/-

    They further refer to the reported incident as " an air-rage bust-up" in which Clay was "involved.

    They say Clay "rowed with a woman after his foot was resting on her armrest and she gave him a 'minor shove' ..." No mention that he was reportedly asleep when his foot came to rest on her armrest.

    They further say "When the plane landed, passengers were held at Tulsa International Airport until they were interviewed by FBI agents."
    If all the passengers were held up, I think it's a sad commentary on the ridiculous state of affairs re today's "airport security" procedures. (Be afraid, everyone. Be very afraid!) But it's not clear that all the passengers were questioned. It may well have been just those who said they witnessed the incident and were willing to make a statement. (Why would they interview passengers who hadn't observed what happened?)
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  3. #693
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Grisabella... while I'm certain that Clay Aiken would be extremely happy that you're defending him in such a manner, you need to see the flip side of exactly what you're arguing... that there are two sides to every story.

    You're lambasting the media for painting a distorted picture of the event when everything you've stated above purely supports a favorable version of the events, and certainly not a version that I've seen in print anywhere. And it was Clay, himself, that said that he got "beat up by a girl." Shall we slam Clay for misrepresenting the facts, too??

    Regardless, your statement above that "Witnesses from among the passengers say Clay was asleep on the plane and his foot was resting on his row-mate's arm rest." clearly demonstrates to me that Clay was in the wrong, whether it was a "spat", a "disagreement", or a "shove." I'd love to know how someone 1) manages to put their foot on a fellow row mate's armrest and 2) thinks that that is proper. I personally think it's disgusting, and not because I dislike Clay Aiken. It's an invasion of space, and it's uncalled for to have to deal with it.

    And it's laughable that you're expecting FoxNews to be a credible source of news. Just further proof that they are not.

  4. #694
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2466609;
    I'd love to know how someone 1) manages to put their foot on a fellow row mate's armrest and 2) thinks that that is proper. I personally think it's disgusting, and not because I dislike Clay Aiken. It's an invasion of space, and it's uncalled for to have to deal with it.
    ITA. Clay must be very bendy. Perhaps a hidden talent? But in all seriousness, you just don't put your feet on someone else's armrest/chair. And if you're caught doing it, you don't swear at her--you just apologize and move your feet back to where they belong. Planes are nasty enough without having shoes shoved in your face in closed quarters.

  5. #695
    FORT Fogey razorbacker's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2466609;
    Grisabella... while I'm certain that Clay Aiken would be extremely happy that you're defending him in such a manner, you need to see the flip side of exactly what you're arguing... that there are two sides to every story.

    You're lambasting the media for painting a distorted picture of the event when everything you've stated above purely supports a favorable version of the events, and certainly not a version that I've seen in print anywhere. And it was Clay, himself, that said that he got "beat up by a girl." Shall we slam Clay for misrepresenting the facts, too??

    Regardless, your statement above that "Witnesses from among the passengers say Clay was asleep on the plane and his foot was resting on his row-mate's arm rest." clearly demonstrates to me that Clay was in the wrong, whether it was a "spat", a "disagreement", or a "shove." I'd love to know how someone 1) manages to put their foot on a fellow row mate's armrest and 2) thinks that that is proper. I personally think it's disgusting, and not because I dislike Clay Aiken. It's an invasion of space, and it's uncalled for to have to deal with it.

    And it's laughable that you're expecting FoxNews to be a credible source of news. Just further proof that they are not.
    Regarding the highlighted phrase above. I have to ask, "How in the world does anyone put their foot on the armrest of someone in the same row?" This would require someone with great elastic properties. Or someone that has stretched out over more than one seat. I have to believe that he had his foot on the armrest in front of him. What am I missing?

  6. #696
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by razorbacker;2466623;
    I have to ask, "How in the world does anyone put their foot on the armrest of someone in the same row?" This would require someone with great elastic properties. Or someone that has stretched out over more than one seat. I have to believe that he had his foot on the armrest in front of him. What am I missing?
    I thought the same as you at first, but all the articles said he had his foot on the armrest of his row mate, which means they were in the same row. All I can think is maybe he had a window seat and he curled his body towards the aisle and put his foot on the armrest? Maybe the middle seat was empty and she was in the aisle seat and his legs stretched over into her area...Who knows? Like I said earlier...he appears to be very bendy!

  7. #697
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    That's what I thought originally, too, razorbacker. But in Grisabella's vigorous defense, it is claimed that it is his rowmate's armrest. The only thing that I can think of is that it was a row of three seats and the seat in between the two was empty. In this case 1) I wouldn't call this a commuter plane, and 2) I am EXTREMELY excited any time there is an empty seat between me and another passenger. It is rare these days and if the other passenger had the unmitigated gall to think that he could take up the entire empty seat in order to go to sleep that would be enough to make me mad. If he put his shoes on my armrest it would be even worse.

  8. #698
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;2466609;
    Grisabella...

    You're lambasting the media for painting a distorted picture of the event when everything you've stated above purely supports a favorable version of the events, and certainly not a version that I've seen in print anywhere. And it was Clay, himself, that said that he got "beat up by a girl." Shall we slam Clay for misrepresenting the facts, too??
    First, the "beat up by a girl" comment was a somewhat self-effacing, joking comment Clay made, but it does suggest that she did more than just give him a "minor shove." If she did, as some reports say, swat his legs several times, I'd hardly call that quip "misrepresenting." It's just snark.

    Actually, I was pointing out that the Fox News reports were internally inconsistent and midleading, based on the facts that they eventually got around to reporting. I mean when your actual news report is that X was asleep, X's foot was on Y's armrest, Y may have shoved X, the FBI took a report, no one was injured or charged with anything, it's more than a little misleading to use teasers and headlines that suggest there was a "fist fight" or that Clay did something skocking or instigated an "ugly incident." Fox's (and C Spider's) headlines and labelling are designed to be provocative and make the story seem much bigger than it was and they clearly suggest that Clay somehow got out of control and out of line, when the reported facts don't support that.

    If you want to call someone "in the wrong" because their foot (or head or arm) intrudes into someone else's space while they're asleep, OK, that's your judgment. But the normal adult way of dealing with that would be to nudge the person to wake them up and then ask them to move the offending appendage.

    Even if the person was already awake when they invaded your space, shoving or hitting or even yelling at them isn't advisable, especially on an airplane in flight (especially with today's paranoia about terrorism). If you can't resolve the problem by a polite request, you call the flight attendant.

    And it's laughable that you're expecting FoxNews to be a credible source of news. Just further proof that they are not.
    Who expects Fox News to be "fair and balanced," much less a credible news source. Certainly not I.
    Yes, this is a further example of their distortions. But they're not the only "news channel" that likes to use sensationalistic headlines and teasers.
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-09-2007 at 04:48 PM.
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  9. #699
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by razorbacker;2466623;
    ... I have to ask, "How in the world does anyone put their foot on the armrest of someone in the same row?" This would require someone with great elastic properties. Or someone that has stretched out over more than one seat. I have to believe that he had his foot on the armrest in front of him. What am I missing?
    Reports from some witnesses on the plane say that the woman actually was in the row in front of Clay, not in his row.

    (However, if it actually was a first-class section, usually those have only 2 seats, with a rather wide armrest or dual arm rest between them.)

    Lois Lane, I agree that if Clay knowingly put his immense foot on someone else's armrest, that was rude and inappropriate. But I kind of doubt he would do that deliberately, and even the Fox News report said that he was "reportedly asleep" at the time of the offending foot infraction.
    I don't normally call the behavior of a sleeping person "rude."

    Similarly, if Clay "swore at" the woman just for asking him to move his foot, that would be very bad behavior. But from the reports I've read (and I've read many), he used a "cuss word" later in one of his meet & greets when referring to the incident and referred to the woman as a "witch" at that time, to his fans. If it's true that she started hitting him instead of some calmer action, I'm not sure that label is inappropriate.

    By the way, nobody said his feet were in her face or that he did not apologize and move his foot as soon as he was awake.

    The thing is, the media are all "reporting" this "news" story when we don't really have a good, solid accounting of the incident -- The FBI report was taken as a security precaution, not as a news report, and since no charges were filed there's no reason for them to release it -- not to mention that such a minor "altercation" really doesn't merit being a national news story anyway. What's next? "Paris Hilton's chihuahua barks and scares someone's kid and the angry parent and Paris exchange angry words: Details at eleven"?

    Eyewitness reports -- especially second- and third-hand retelling of those reports -- are, as is always the case inconsistent on some details. So I think we should be wary of overinterpreting details we don't even know happened. I'm not so much "vigorously defending Clay" as saying that the "news" reports I have heard have been much ado about nothing, based on the facts they eventually get around to stating.

    Let's not skewer Clay for something we don't even know he did. Similarly, I won't automatically say the woman passenger was out of line, when I don't really know what she did. It just doesn't appear to be any big deal, whoever was at fault.
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-09-2007 at 05:13 PM.
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  10. #700
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    I have not seen a single news source reporting on this incident which hasn't used the same kind of language and "distortions" as Fox News. If this takes away from Fox's credibility, then it pretty much takes down the entire news media.

    I think this story is a classic example of the old "Three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth". Clay-sided sources say the woman hit and yelled at him. Anti-Clay sided sources categorize it as politely waking him up and asking him to move. I'm putting my money on it being somewhere in between.

    Grisabella, you've mentioned a couple of times now that Clay invaded her space "while sleeping". I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but that's coming across to me as being the kind of movement a person makes unknowingly while sleeping, like your head nods down onto someone's shoulder. If that is the case, I'd have to disagree with that description. For his foot to have been involved required him lifting it up. Body parts can fall unknowingly while you sleep, but rarely if ever lift up -- espeically if the speculation is correct that his feet were slung up over his arm rest, onto an empty seat and arm rest.

    I'm willing to accept that the woman's confrontation may not have been a meek "Excuse me sir, could you please move". I'm also willing to accept that Clay did not do anyting outrageous and appropriate of making it a national incident. But at the same time to be fair, I have to accept that perhaps Clay was not entirely considerate of others in his sleep positioning. I do'nt think this is a story where one side is 100% in the right, and the other is 100% in the wrong. I think it's more likely the story of two people who each got a little selfish and inconsiderate of others, and unfortunately collided.

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