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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #1261
    That's all folks! Unklescott's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDone;3042616;
    You are confusing bloggers and critics with the general public.
    I asked several of my employees at work today and the consensus of opinion was that Clay was best known to them as the AI runnerup.

  2. #1262
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRose;3042600;
    When the general public recognizes that person for his/her more recent, more relevant and higher profile and not for a talent show where he was a runner-up.
    Thank you. Exactly.

    Why is it that people have a problem with Clay being referred to as an AI contestant/runner up? He doesn't have a problem with it. Are his fans embarrassed about it? Because he's not. And if they are embarrassed about it, why are they? This pops up quite a bit in this thread. People get bent out of shape because a benign news article mentions that he was on AI but not that he was in Spamalot. Who really cares? Honestly.

    And as famous as Clay may be, he is nowhere near as famous as Timberlake, Spears or Aguilera. And do not even try to compare him to Elvis' level of fame 'cause it's apples and oranges. Maybe when he reaches that level of fame, the AI runnerup tag will stop. But seriously--why would anyone think that's bad?

    And as a FYI, news stories in general have gotten shorter and shorter. There simply isn't enough space to write everything into one short 350 word piece.

  3. #1263
    FORT Fogey razorbacker's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDone;3041423;
    So? What has she contributed besides album sales and awards for lots of album sales? Would she have all of those awards if her record label had not put millions behind her? Where would she be after 5 years of no radio or label support? What does she have without that? A couple of flings and an eating disorder. Otherwise, nothing.
    Your attempts at pumping Clay while making unfounded accusations towards Carrie & trying to bring her down are just laughable & one of the huge reasons why Clay fans are so disliked across the www. Carries awards are voted for by her peers, her vocal abilities have absolutely nothing to do with the label spending X amount of $$ & her peers recognize that. Besides, for all the millions you percieve they have spent on her, she has brought back that amount 10 fold to the label. Being a vegetarian is not considered an eating disorder by anyone other than someone that wants to cast aspersions...someone such as yourself. Good luck to Clay & his fans.

  4. #1264
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Rose
    Quote Originally Posted by AllDone
    At what point can we expect a person with fame to be introduced by more recent, more relavent and higher profile accomplishments?
    When the general public recognizes that person for his/her more recent, more relevant and higher profile and not for a talent show where he was a runner-up.
    The general public's perception is formed and reinforced mainly by the media. Sometimes the media do refer to Clay as "RCA recording artist" or "multiplatinum recording artist" or even just "singer" -- which is far more often the way they refer to other entertainers who have done well commercially after leaving whatever 'nest' they were 'hatched' in. And if more of them would do that, the general public would be more aware of what Clay has accomplished since Idol. But way too many of them throw in both AI and "runner-up" when it's entirely irrelevant. That keeps that association forever in the public's mind -- even for people who did not watch American Idol 2 and were not 'introduced to' Clay's music in that context.
    Last edited by Mantenna; 06-07-2008 at 04:11 PM.

  5. #1265
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Who's saying Clay's as big a star as JT or Xtina or Elvis? Or even as Carrie and Kelly (who, BTW, have always had much more support from the 19 corporation and from their record labels than Clay ever had)? (I agree that RCA, in conjunction with the 19 folks, grabbed Clay's contract option back in June 2003, not because they wanted to support his career as an artist but because they knew he could make money for them just on the basis of his fan base and the "rivalry" with Ruben and if they had let him sign with a strong rival label, he had the potential to seriously upstage the official Idol winners.)
    Clay is still among the 3 to 7 most famous and most commercially successful AI graduates, depending on your criteria. Carrie and Kelly are the only two who have clearly surpassed his success on several measures (e.g., CD sales, awards, radio). Daughtry will soon join them, I think. But when you consider all of it -- CD sales, chart success, book sales, concert ticket sales, Broadway success, radio, awards, internet activity, humanitarian work and even positive media coverage -- none of the others, including Jennifer Hudson, Ruben, Fantasia, Kellie Pickler, Jordin Sparks, Taylor Hicks, Katharine McPhee, Josh Gracin, Kim Caldwell, etc., have come close.

    The main area where Clay hasn't done particularly well is radio, and RCA's decisions have had an awful lot to do with that. They've been slow to release album cuts to radio. They've usually picked the wrong singles (several examples have been discussed earlier in this thread, including the current lead single from OMWH) to release. They've sometimes pushed them to the wrong kinds of stations. Clay and his management team haven't had much to say about things like that, nor does radio today respond to listener requests. Playlists are usually dictated from CHQ in some other city.

    Anyway, Clay actually has been very successful in many ways since AI2, and it has not by any means been just on the basis of the fans he acquired while he was on the show. He wins fans because a lot of people love his voice and many also love his personality and his devotion to things like working for kids with disabilities or doing international work for UNICEF. The consensus is that Clay's live performances are better than his recorded music -- which is the opposite of what's said about a lot of artists.

    I don't think it's an insult to mention AI every once in a while, but the tenor of most articles that do mention "AI runner-up" suggests that "runner-up" is being used as a put-down, not as a positive or because it's important info.

    But in the context of the current media feeding frenzy over Jaymes' Foster's pregnancy, it really isn't even-handed on the part of the media to mention Clay having been on AI 5 years ago and not mention anything whatsoever about his having just finished doing Spamalot on Broadway or just having released a new RCA album or even being a "recording artist" at all. They could just say "singer Clay Aiken" and the vast majority of the public would know who they meant. For those who would not, adding "AI runner-up" isn't going to make them go, "Oh, that guy!"

  6. #1266
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Lois Lane;3042634;
    People get bent out of shape because a benign news article mentions that he was on AI but not that he was in Spamalot.
    Because Spamalot is current but AI was years ago.
    And as a FYI, news stories in general have gotten shorter and shorter. There simply isn't enough space to write everything into one short 350 word piece.
    Even the longer stories, like the recent 2-page spread in In Touch magazine or the equally big story from People.com, have not mentioned Clay's new CD or his recent stint on Broadway or even that he is a recording artist/singer. But they throw in tabloidy stuff that is not at all relevant to Jaymes Foster's pregnancy, and they do usually mention career-related current info when they write about other celebs.

    E.g., a recent lengthy blog in Canada.com by Adrian somebody went on and on about Clay being kind of comparable to David Crosby's having been the sperm donor for Melissa Etheridge and Julie C. He trashed Crosby for having been a drug addict, etc., but threw in a plug for the upcoming CSNY concert -- which had nothing to do with the story. But he did not mention anything about Clay having just released his 4th album or having just finished Spamalot or anything else except that he was once on AI and that there was speculation about his sexuality. "Lack of 'space'" in the blog had nothing to do with what he chose to mention and what he didn't. (The writer's perspective was blatantly one of Clay-Aiken-has-no-talent-and-can't-even-sing-and-I'm-only-writing-about-him-because-I-know-I'll-get-hits-to-my-blog.)

  7. #1267
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Lois, nobody is remotely suggesting the press should mention Clay's "biography" whenever he makes the news. In fact, that's exactly what the "AI runner-up" mention is -- a biographical footnote that's irrelevant to the current conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lois Lane;3042359;
    The news is the fact that he and his friend conceived a child through artificial means--this is news because he is a celebrity and having babies in any way other than the old fashioned way is still new enough technology that it is interesting to a lot of people.
    The story actually would be interesting and informative if they would approach it from a scientific/technological standpoint, pointing out that "the old fashioned way" is extremely likely to be unsuccessful for a woman who is 50. Not only unsuccessful but quite dangerous to her health.
    And that using "artificial insemination" (probably IVF) has nothing to do with the father's health or sexuality or whether or not he's sexually involved with the mother.

    Jaymes probably did not use her own eggs, but if she did, it's very unlikely the conception occurred inside her own body. If you want to have a successful conception and pregnancy at age 50, you very probably won't do it "the old fashioned way."

    Paul McCartney is still referenced as a Beatle in articles about him.
    Not all that often. (Nowadays he's known as the guy Heather Mills took to the cleaners.)
    Anyway, being a Beatle was the high mark of Paul's career and the thing that made him filthy rich and famous.
    Being runner-up on Idol is not what made Clay famous or popular. He almost won because he was very popular. And his CDs and concerts and book sold well because he gained a lot of fans both during and after AI2, not because he came in second. Being runner-up on Idol doesn't automatically keep your name in the media very long, much less make you sell over 5 million albums over 5 years.

    You know, I see entertainment news all the time about "celebrities" whose names I recognize without having much of an idea of who they are. I was aware of what Ashton Kutcher looked like and that he was an item with Demi Moore long before I had any clue what he had done as an entertainer. I keep seeing Zac Efron's pic all over the place and I still don't know what TV show he's on or whatever it is he's well known for. The point is, many "stars" covered by the entertainment media are known in some circles (e.g., country music, sitcom TV, action movies, basketball or whatever) but known to the general public simply as "actor," "singer," "football player," or something vague like that. I don't think the media generally make a point of always reminding us why we should recognize so-and-so's name.

  8. #1268
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by razorbacker;3043293;
    Your attempts at pumping Clay while making unfounded accusations towards Carrie & trying to bring her down are just laughable & one of the huge reasons why Clay fans are so disliked across the www. Carries awards are voted for by her peers, her vocal abilities have absolutely nothing to do with the label spending X amount of $$ & her peers recognize that. Besides, for all the millions you percieve they have spent on her, she has brought back that amount 10 fold to the label. Being a vegetarian is not considered an eating disorder by anyone other than someone that wants to cast aspersions...someone such as yourself. Good luck to Clay & his fans.
    I'm not the one that brought up Carrie in this thread. Her fans throw her success in the face of every other idol and its just as easy to dislike her fans as you say about Clay's fans. His fans aren't in her thread bragging about the accomplishments that he has achieved and she hasn't.

    If the label had spent millions on Clay, he would be just as successful as Carrie in sales and awards, maybe more so. Like I said before. Where would she be without the millions spent on her? Without the radio payola and promo budget, she'd be long forgotten. If you want to talk about fans who are universally disliked, take a look in the mirror and brag about Carrie in her own thread.

  9. #1269
    Courtesy and Goodwill Mantenna's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Okay, the personal sniping in this thread needs to stop. Good points have been made on both sides of the argument, and while this sort of debate is fine, the thinly-veiled jabs at one another are not.

    Thank you.

  10. #1270
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy in SD;3043569;
    Not all that often. (Nowadays he's known as the guy Heather Mills took to the cleaners.)
    Anyway, being a Beatle was the high mark of Paul's career and the thing that made him filthy rich and famous.
    Being runner-up on Idol is not what made Clay famous or popular. He almost won because he was very popular.
    Actually, being a runner up on Idol is what made Clay famous and something he has always been proud of. He almost won, but didn't. Regardless, it was his stint on the show that made him a known entity and gave him the opportunity to make his albums and the chance to perform in "Spamalot" and the celebrity to be selected as a UNICEF ambassador. Without "American Idol," he would probably be a teacher who sang...but he wouldn't be recognizable or have all the opportunities he's enjoying now to pursue his dreams. Same can be said for David Archuletta, Katherine McPhee, and many of the other popular contestants from the show.

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