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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #1221
    Teach your children Uncle David's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Just to be clear...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy in SD;3035210;
    Click to see Spoiler:
    (I always thought the core was belief in the divinity of Jesus and faith in him. Codes of conduct are secondary.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle David;3034673;
    With all due respect, the 'Nuclear Family' is at the very core of Christian belief.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    Quote Originally Posted by mbcrowder;3035603;
    Interestingly, I don't see this in my Bible at all. The divorce rate in this country is over 50% - and the rate for Christians in this country is slightly higher. I'd shy away from that "higher moral ground".
    No moral high ground here. Just an observation. I'm surprised you too haven't observed prominent Christian 'spokespersons' claiming the same thing. Or perhaps I've heard wrong when Christians argue against gay adoption.

  2. #1222
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Not going to make any more comments about Clay's personal life. Whatever he decides to do, professionally or personally, I wll always support him, his career. Love him, his voice and his music.

  3. #1223
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;3035573;
    Is it really a spoiler that Christians believe in the divinity of Jesus?
    I used the "spoiler" format merely because that was an aside - a point that seemed to have the potential of taking this thread off on a theological tangent.
    Rather than do just that, I'll just say I'm done with the debate over what "Christians" believe, except to reiterate that there's a lot of diversity within Christianity. I prefer to get back to discussing Clay - particularly his public life and career.

  4. #1224
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;3035573;
    if you have a person espousing that they are living a good Christian life but then they intentionally CHOOSE to make an action that goes against traditional Christian beliefs.
    Artificial insemination and in-vitro fertilization are very recent technological advances, not something long considered by any religions. But if it is not immoral for a single person to adopt and raise a child, why is it necessarily wrong for a financially and physically capable single woman to choose AI or IVF as a means of conceiving a child whom she will raise?
    For whatever reasons, millions of people raise children in single-parent families, and those kids don't necessarily turn out worse than most kids raised by two parents. (Real-life nuclear families are seldom ideal.) I don't think the vast majority of Christians would condemn Jaymes Foster's decision to bear a child without being married, and even if they did consider it a "sin," it's not like the rest of them (us) never deliberately choose to "sin" either. You, of course, may view it however you like.

    I think Jaymes choosing single motherhood is no less understandable or more "sinful" than someone who is in a "bad marriage" breaking their "for better or worse, till death do us part" vow to move on to a "better" marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway
    I don't pay enough attention to Clay Aiken to know whether he holds himself up to be a Christian role model. I do know that he has been involved in very charitable events and activities so he can definitely be considered a good role model, but a Christian role model? I don't think so. And yes, I do believe that he is a very good friend to help Jaymes Foster out in her quest for a baby. That isn't at dispute.
    Clay has been very public about being a Christian. He was a long time member of a Southern Baptist church in Raleigh, wore a WWJD bracelet for a long time (even on the cover of Rolling Stone), has taken a stance that he won't sing lyrics that are inconsistent with being a good role model for kids, has recorded and performed many traditional and contemporary Christian songs, and spoke a great deal about his faith in his memoir book "Learning To Sing: Hearing The Music In Your Life." And, of course, his commitment to "making a difference" via working with and for children with disabilities or UNICEF or the PCPID is part and parcel of his religious faith. His career has probably had some real setbacks because of the restrictions he has placed on himself and the kinds of images and videos and songs he finds acceptable. (He had a huge fight with Clive Davis over the video RCA made for This Is The Night. Most people who have seen it think it was hot! But Clay thought it made him look "mean" and it didn't fit with the positive, wholesome image he wanted to portray. He won that battle - the video was not released - but apparently lost the "war" with RCA, and they have not really supported his career ever since.
    If for some reason you don't want to consider him a Christian role model, that's up to you.
    Last edited by Sandy in SD; 06-03-2008 at 02:37 PM.

  5. #1225
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Fox News apparently reported this morning that the story about Clay being the father of Jaymes's baby is not true.
    Details at 11.

  6. #1226
    FORT Fogey mbcrowder's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle David;3035801;
    No moral high ground here. Just an observation. I'm surprised you too haven't observed prominent Christian 'spokespersons' claiming the same thing. Or perhaps I've heard wrong when Christians argue against gay adoption.
    Christian spokespersons often seem to be those most guilty of not upholding what they are crowing about ... but that's not my point.

    What they SAY, and what the general "Christian's" do are two completely different things. As is often the case, leadership is screaming from the rooftops, but not representing the beliefs of those they lead.

  7. #1227
    On a cupcake mission! Lois Lane's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Well, whether Fox's story is correct or whether this story in People is correct... Foster's friends are yakking it up that Clay is the baby daddy. This baby will have Clay's genetic makeup, but not Foster's. Though she didn't admit it, it is almost impossible for a 50-year-old women to be successful via artificial insemination to get pregnant using her own eggs. Most likely, she used an egg donor from a much younger woman. So if this story is correct, Clay has decided to start a family with his friend. Most men (and women) don't do this unless they realize that they will not be having children with their future spouses (hetero or not). Perhaps he viewed this as his best chance of having a family with someone he cares for...


    Pals Say Clay Aiken Will Be a 'Good Parent' - Babies, Clay Aiken, Eric Roberts, Jennifer Hudson : People.com


    By Mike Fleeman

    Originally posted Tuesday June 03, 2008 03:40 PM EDT

    Clay Aiken's friends are sending him support and good wishes after hearing news that he's going to be a father with music producer Jaymes Foster.

    "Congratulations, Clay!" says American Idol alum Jennifer Hudson. "I think he will be a good parent."

    Actor Eric Roberts and wife Eliza says their close friend Foster – the sister of music producer David Foster – pulled them aside at her 50th birthday party in Los Angeles in March to tell of her pregnancy with a friend, whom they later learned was the 29-year-old Aiken.

    "This is a story of two people, who perhaps not typical as parents – whatever typical is – or at a stage of life typical for parent, want to have a child to love and to experience parenthood," Roberts says. "These people have the best foundation of all to share such an important task, which is a strong, abiding friendship."

    Foster, who has been friends with Aiken since they worked together on Idol, was artificially inseminated, and is due in August, a rep for her Foster's brother tells PEOPLE.

    Eliza Roberts stresses: "People should understand: It's not like he's the donor and she's the surrogate. These are two people who made a very loving decision to have a baby together."

    Former Idol contestant Carmen Rasmusen, who toured with Aiken after the second season, says, "I've always thought Clay would make a great dad. He's great with kids. ... He's accomplished a lot in his career, so it's probably a good time for him to be a dad."

    While on the tour bus, Aiken would talk about wanting to become a father, Rasmusen says.

    "I remember him saying, 'I can't wait to be a dad and have a family and have my own kids,'" recalls she. "He really was looking forward to being a father, even five years ago. I thought it was so cute that that was a priority for him."


    • Reporting by MOLLY LOPEZ, TIFFANY McGEE and PAMELA WARRICK

  8. #1228
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy in SD;3036174;
    Artificial insemination and in-vitro fertilization are very recent technological advances, not something long considered by any religions. But if it is not immoral for a single person to adopt and raise a child, why is it necessarily wrong for a financially and physically capable single woman to choose AI or IVF as a means of conceiving a child whom she will raise?
    For whatever reasons, millions of people raise children in single-parent families, and those kids don't necessarily turn out worse than most kids raised by two parents. (Real-life nuclear families are seldom ideal.) I don't think the vast majority of Christians would condemn Jaymes Foster's decision to bear a child without being married, and even if they did consider it a "sin," it's not like the rest of them (us) never deliberately choose to "sin" either. You, of course, may view it however you like.
    Talk about taking my comment into a different direction. First, my comments were discussing UncleDavid's reference to the definition of traditional Christian beliefs about the nuclear family. My post had absolutely NOTHING to do with making any kind of judgment on Jaymes Foster's decision to have IVF. Who was discussing her Christianity?

    Perhaps that will help you understand that I wasn't discussing the "reality" of Christian living.

    I think Jaymes choosing single motherhood is no less understandable or more "sinful" than someone who is in a "bad marriage" breaking their "for better or worse, till death do us part" vow to move on to a "better" marriage.
    Again, Jaymes Foster's Christianity was never at discussion, so this is a pretty moot comment.

    Clay has been very public about being a Christian. He was a long time member of a Southern Baptist church in Raleigh, wore a WWJD bracelet for a long time (even on the cover of Rolling Stone), has taken a stance that he won't sing lyrics that are inconsistent with being a good role model for kids, has recorded and performed many traditional and contemporary Christian songs, and spoke a great deal about his faith in his memoir book "Learning To Sing: Hearing The Music In Your Life." And, of course, his commitment to "making a difference" via working with and for children with disabilities or UNICEF or the PCPID is part and parcel of his religious faith. His career has probably had some real setbacks because of the restrictions he has placed on himself and the kinds of images and videos and songs he finds acceptable. (He had a huge fight with Clive Davis over the video RCA made for This Is The Night. Most people who have seen it think it was hot! But Clay thought it made him look "mean" and it didn't fit with the positive, wholesome image he wanted to portray. He won that battle - the video was not released - but apparently lost the "war" with RCA, and they have not really supported his career ever since.
    If for some reason you don't want to consider him a Christian role model, that's up to you.
    And I'll reiterate for the last time, my post was about the traditional Christian tenet of the "nuclear" family. Following the traditional tenets, actively choosing to have a child out of wedlock, by whatever means, is a sin. For that reason, no.. I do not believe he should be held up as this traditional Christian role model. Does he do good deeds? Sure. Is he a Christian? Sure. Does he resemble many of today's Christians? Sure, that has never been at debate and I've never said anything different.
    Never let the things you want make you forget about the things you have.

  9. #1229
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Lois Lane;3036465;
    Well, whether Fox's story is correct or whether this story in People is correct... Foster's friends are yakking it up that Clay is the baby daddy.
    There is something odd about this story.

    Actor Eric Roberts and wife Eliza says their close friend Foster – the sister of music producer David Foster – pulled them aside at her 50th birthday party in Los Angeles in March to tell of her pregnancy with a friend, whom they later learned was the 29-year-old Aiken.

    ...

    Eliza Roberts stresses: "People should understand: It's not like he's the donor and she's the surrogate. These are two people who made a very loving decision to have a baby together."
    If Jaymes was so thrilled to be starting a family with Clay - as opposed to his being merely the sperm donor - why would she not have mentioned his being the dad when she told her close friends she was pregnant?
    This baby will have Clay's genetic makeup, but not Foster's. Though she didn't admit it, it is almost impossible for a 50-year-old women to be successful via artificial insemination to get pregnant using her own eggs. Most likely, she used an egg donor from a much younger woman.
    No, it's not "almost impossible." But it is harder. That's why the term "she was artificially inseminated" is so misleading. It's far more likely that they collected Jaymes's own eggs and used in vitro fertilization as the conception method than that they "inseminated" her with donor sperm.
    They probably gathered several ova and used IVF to increase the chances of getting a viable embryo.

    Calling it "artificial insemination" suggests to most people that Jaymes was perfectly capable of conceiving via intercourse but Clay impregnated her artificially because of some reluctance to have sex with her. As you say, 50-year-old women are likely to have trouble conceiving. Especially via sexual intercourse. That's why they turn to fertility clinics and methods like IVF.

    If, in fact, they are planning to live as a family and raise the child together, fertility issues would be a reason for using AI or (more likely) IVF.


    Pals Say Clay Aiken Will Be a 'Good Parent' - Babies, Clay Aiken, Eric Roberts, Jennifer Hudson : People.com
    Last edited by Sandy in SD; 06-03-2008 at 07:11 PM.

  10. #1230
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;3036668;
    My post had absolutely NOTHING to do with making any kind of judgment on Jaymes Foster's decision to have IVF. Who was discussing her Christianity?
    ...
    Again, Jaymes Foster's Christianity was never at discussion, ...
    It sounded like you were judging her actions from the standpoint of what a Christian would do. If I misunderstood, I misunderstood.

    Following the traditional tenets, actively choosing to have a child out of wedlock, by whatever means, is a sin. For that reason, no.. I do not believe he should be held up as this traditional Christian role model. Does he do good deeds? Sure. Is he a Christian? Sure. Does he resemble many of today's Christians? Sure, that has never been at debate and I've never said anything different.
    Sort of sounds like you think nobody who's a known sinner can be a good Christian role model. I'd say that leaves pretty near all of us out.

    And, BTW, Clay's Christianity is something he's very public about, but I've never heard him claim to be "traditional" (whatever that means).
    Last edited by Sandy in SD; 06-03-2008 at 07:13 PM.

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