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Thread: Clay Aiken

  1. #1211
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle David;3034673;
    With all due respect, the 'Nuclear Family' is at the very core of Christian belief.
    Yeah, that's why Christians seldom get divorced, much less remarried.
    (E.g., Vince Gill leaving Janice for Amy Grant, just to give one high profile example.) Nor do single Christians ever adopt and raise kids on their own. Nor do Christian women ever get pregnant out of wedlock and choose to keep and raise the child on their own.
    There are many varieties of Christians, and not all of them hold the nuclear family as "the core of Christianity" at all.
    Click to see Spoiler:
    (I always thought the core was belief in the divinity of Jesus and faith in him. Codes of conduct are secondary.)
    And even if they do hold this as the ideal, people's behavior seldom lives up to all those ideals.

  2. #1212
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy in SD;3033276;
    right when he was finishing up an off-Broadway run
    Spamalot is a major Broadway show, it is not off-broadway.

    If it is true that he provided sperm so that Jaymes might be artificially inseminated, then this would further confirm my views.
    Donating sperm is far more common in the straight world than among gay men. If you're going to draw a conclusion, it would be more logical to go with real statistics than to rely on your whatever-dar, the tabloid press or TV sitcoms for material on which to draw conclusions.
    Last edited by AllDone; 06-03-2008 at 02:16 AM.

  3. #1213
    Smokin! Sandy in SD's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by AllDone;3035266;
    Spamalot is a major Broadway show, it is not off-broadway.
    I stand corrected. Thanks.
    Donating sperm is far more common in the straight world than among gay men. If you're going to draw a conclusion, it would be more logical to go with real statistics than to rely on your whatever-dar, the tabloid press or TV sitcoms for material on which to draw conclusions.
    Good point.

  4. #1214
    FORT Fogey Blues Songstres's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    You know, I just don't care if it's true or not. If Clay decided to help a friend out, if he is actually involved in a relationship with this lady or if the entire story is fabricated - I just don't care. Clay has proven himself to be a caring, involved and giving individual. That means more to me than any of this unsubstantiated gossip. JMO.

  5. #1215
    HELL-O DR OLIVER! stacerace's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Blues Songstres;3035373;
    You know, I just don't care if it's true or not. If Clay decided to help a friend out, if he is actually involved in a relationship with this lady or if the entire story is fabricated - I just don't care. Clay has proven himself to be a caring, involved and giving individual. That means more to me than any of this unsubstantiated gossip. JMO.
    I agree. If it's true, then congratulations to him because I know he'll make a great father. I don't really care one way or the other. I also don't care if he's gay or not or whether this implicates his being gay or not. It's no one's business but his own.
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  6. #1216
    FORT Fanatic sushifan's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Clay is a public figure. He makes money off the public and therefore does not enjoy the same degree of privacy that we all do. Can't use your fame as both a sword and a shield, sorry!

    And Sandy, let me try one final time to make a point you have missed: I'm not saying Clay is gay because he didn't have sex with Jaymes. Go back a few pages and you'll see why I made the argument. Most young, straight men who are interested in having a family would, out of respect to their future wives, wait to have kids rather than have one out of wedlock, by artificial insemination. Does that idea really not make even a modicum of sense to you? I understand that you are a rabid fan of Clay - please be assured that I'm not intending him any harm or trying to slander him. I only hope that someday, if I'm proven right (as I believe I will) you will continue to support him as much as ever.

  7. #1217
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy in SD;3035210;
    Yeah, that's why Christians seldom get divorced, much less remarried.
    (E.g., Vince Gill leaving Janice for Amy Grant, just to give one high profile example.) Nor do single Christians ever adopt and raise kids on their own. Nor do Christian women ever get pregnant out of wedlock and choose to keep and raise the child on their own.
    There are many varieties of Christians, and not all of them hold the nuclear family as "the core of Christianity" at all. (I always thought the core was belief in the divinity of Jesus and faith in him. Codes of conduct are secondary.) And even if they do hold this as the ideal, people's behavior seldom lives up to all those ideals.
    Is it really a spoiler that Christians believe in the divinity of Jesus? But codes of conduct are never "secondary."

    I knew the random "well what about X or Y" argument would be thrown out in an attempt to refute Uncle David's statement, but unfortunately they don't. Vince Gill was in a bad marriage. Amy Grant was in a bad marriage. They both fell in love and chose to end their marriages and they were both very, very open about the struggle to do so while reconciling it with their Christian faith. One of the major beliefs, tenets, ideals, whatever you want to "title" them, in Christianity does center around the nuclear family as the ideal. None of your examples refute that... but they do exemplify the fact that life happens... sin happens. Where Uncle David's statement comes into play is if you have a person espousing that they are living a good Christian life but then they intentionally CHOOSE to make an action that goes against traditional Christian beliefs.

    I don't pay enough attention to Clay Aiken to know whether he holds himself up to be a Christian role model. I do know that he has been involved in very charitable events and activities so he can definitely be considered a good role model, but a Christian role model? I don't think so. And yes, I do believe that he is a very good friend to help Jaymes Foster out in her quest for a baby. That isn't at dispute.
    Never let the things you want make you forget about the things you have.

  8. #1218
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    I'm not Sandy but I'll tell you, it makes no sense to me to put my value system and beliefs onto Clay and then judge him when he doesn't make the same decisions that I would make. There were meltdowns when this self identified Christian guy chose to sing a christian song in concert, they melted down when the picture of him with his hands cradling Mezghan's breasts was discovered on her website. People make assumptions about Clay all the time and when he isn't the virgin, slut, saint, choirboy, rocker, apolitical agnostic or boyfriend they assume he is, they are upset. Some of his fans, who prefer to think he is gay, become furious with him when he doesn't act fey enough for their liking. How dare he flirt with girls they say! He has not hurt anyone or committed any crimes. He isn't responsible for the actions or reactions of these people. He isn't obligated to explain anything. He just goes on living his life.
    Last edited by AllDone; 06-03-2008 at 09:58 AM.

  9. #1219
    FORT Fogey mbcrowder's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle David;3034673;
    With all due respect, the 'Nuclear Family' is at the very core of Christian belief.
    Interestingly, I don't see this in my Bible at all. The divorce rate in this country is over 50% - and the rate for Christians in this country is slightly higher. I'd shy away from that "higher moral ground".

  10. #1220
    FORT Fogey graycat11's Avatar
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    Re: Clay Aiken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy in SD;3034192;
    Oh, and graycat, just to avoid confusion, this latest story is about Jaymes (Foster), who has worked as Clay's music producer for at least a year or two, not Jamie, who is his cousin (by marriage) and hairstylist.
    Thanks. I knew who was who but the spelling of the names, I mixed those up. Knew that Jamie was his hair stylist. I should've checked on correct spelling.

    Thanks for reminding me.

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