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Thread: Talent Over Image...Please!

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    Talent Over Image...Please!

    America got it right in American Idol when they chose talent over image...I know it's probably a very different set of people voting now but it's not too late to set things straight.

    I have nothing against Tori and Taylor...they aren't the two most talented but there's going to be FIVE people in the group, so I think America should now choose the THREE BEST singers to carry this group.

    Now that Tori and Taylor are in...let's just stop debating whether they should be in the group...they are already in...please move on. When all is said and done, nobody is going to remember the order in which these kids are selected...so I say let's just vote in the best talent because they are the most deserving.

    I know I've said before we should vote in who complements the Thompsons best...but I'm changing my stance...FORGET that the Thompsons are in the group (let them be backup singers for all I care) and vote in the 3 best...not the 3 who look cutest with Tori and Taylor.

    After 3 performances, I'm convinced that Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle are the 3 strongest singers in the competition (although I wouldn't be mad at anyone for voting Chauncey in...and I find Morgan talented but annoying). There may be some here that disagree and I don't mind, as long as you are really convinced that you are voting in the best.

    For this group to have any credibility, I think you have to vote in the talent and a group with Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle (plus the Thompson sisters to back them up) would sound pretty good. It's been forever since there was a child group that could REALLY SING.

    If America continues to vote in the weaker singers, this group will become a walking punchline...I doubt anyone would take this group seriously. You can't argue with good talent- talent will always be respected. Image comes and goes.

    Remember what Simon Cowell said: "America is known for great singers, not good singers." I have no problem with singers like the Thompsons- they are good...I just wouldn't pay to hear them sing. You can find talent like the Thompsons at any local talent show. Singers like Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle are much more rare and if America wants to see this group have any success, they should vote at least two of them in.
    Last edited by TheTruth; 07-17-2003 at 04:27 AM.

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    FORT Fan yahright's Avatar
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    Truth,

    I luv your posts. You seem to dig deeper than just the surface of things. I agree with what you're saying, but I'm sure you're not even surprised by how this is going. I'm sure lots of other people figured the Thompsons would get in cause they look so cute.

    You mentioned,
    "For this group to have any credibility, I think you have to vote in the talent and a group with Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle (plus the Thompson sisters to back them up) would sound pretty good. It's been forever since there was a child group that could REALLY SING."

    Yes, to the people who value credibility, I agree with you, but you know as much as I do, credibility of talent isn't needed to be a success. And it has been almost forever since a group could really sing. That's because, again, you don't need to really sing, as long as your image and package are marketed correctly. Until people like you and me become the majority, this sick trend is going to continue.

    Also you said,
    "If America continues to vote in the weaker singers, this group will become a walking punchline...I doubt anyone would take this group seriously."

    If Britney Spears was taken seriously by millions of people who made her and her record company tons of money, then anyone could be taken seriously.

    Can you imagine how many kids turned to their mommies and daddies after they watched Taylor do her cheesy burger for me video, and said, " I want to eat a cheeseburger!! I want to eat a cheeseburger!!"
    Last edited by yahright; 07-17-2003 at 05:02 AM.

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    Loved your reply...it's refreshing to see a well-thought out post on this board...

    Look below for some of my responses...

    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    Yes, to the people who value credibility, I agree with you, but you know as much as I do, credibility of talent isn't needed to be a success. And it has been almost forever since a group could really sing. That's because, again, you don't need to really sing, as long as your image and package are marketed correctly. Until people like you and me become the majority, this sick trend is going to continue

    If Britney Spears was taken seriously by millions of people who made her and her record company tons of money, then anyone could be taken seriously.
    The point I was trying to make is that I HOPE the tide will start to turn. It's really up to us to demand talent over image. I don't think America really takes Britney seriously...even people who buy her CDs will admit she's not a great singer. Britney's x-factor is her sex appeal...and I don't even want to go there with these kids.

    I loved that America voted for Ruben, Clay, and Kim Locke...and I hope that these are the type of pop stars we have in the future...not manufactured, over-produced, undertalented singers with barely passable voices.

    I prefer to hear singers with REAL talent, like Alicia Keys and Norah Jones. And I guarantee that Alicia and Norah will be around long after Britney becomes the butt of a joke (if she already isn't).

    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    Can you imagine how many kids turned to their mommies and daddies after they watched Taylor do her cheesy burger for me video, and said, " I want to eat a cheeseburger!! I want to eat a cheeseburger!!"
    True true...I can't argue with that. The execs at 19E have been seeing dollar signs from the moment the Thompsons set foot on stage. They are very marketable- Taylor as so much personality, and Tori has AMAZING stage presence.

    But...who's to say that Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle aren't marketable? Maybe their marketability is not quite as obvious...but wouldn't America love to hear three young phenoms singing together? There's alot of great singers out there, but none as young as these three...and I think that makes them VERY unique in the world of music. The Thompsons are marketable, but only to kids. I can't image adults buying their CDs and singing along. But Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle can tap into a wider audience...they just won't sell as many Happy Meals.

    The producers scoured the entire country and auditioned thousands of singers to find the best, and now the three best are going to have a tough time making it into the group.

    Anyways, good post...I'm not trying to argue with you...I just wanted to make my point a little more clear.

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    FORT Fan yahright's Avatar
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    "I prefer to hear singers with REAL talent, like Alicia Keys and Norah Jones. And I guarantee that Alicia and Norah will be around long after Britney becomes the butt of a joke (if she already isn't)." Truth

    Keys and Jones (and even Michelle Branch) have great voices (and can play instruments which is a plus) should be around for a lot longer. The record companies will still likely (and sadly) go for Britney Spears cause what she can make for them in 4 years, is more than Norah Jones can make for them for 10 years. But like you said, hopefully, the trend will change.

    "True true...I can't argue with that. The execs at 19E have been seeing dollar signs from the moment the Thompsons set foot on stage. They are very marketable- Taylor as so much personality, and Tori has AMAZING stage presence." Truth

    I know what you mean. The AJ website even had the Thompson sister's photo in the pic section in the parking lot where they were signing up to tryout before any of them even stepped on stage. That was a sign of things to come. Maybe 19E should take the Thompson sis's and make them the next Mary Kate and Ashley instead. Did you know the Olsen twins are worth an estimated 300 million dollars, it's sick. Makes me wonder if the Olsens are human or was just two robots built by Steven Speilburgs AI team.

    "But...who's to say that Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle aren't marketable? .............But Lucy, Chantel, and Danielle can tap into a wider audience...they just won't sell as many Happy Meals."

    You know what the sad thing is, is that America (or even 19e) will not make this a 5 girl group, but will put 2 boys in the group, and two of those girls you mentioned will be left out. Makes me wonder if the five are already picked, and the voting won't make a difference. Who knows how these things are operated. I'll still watch though.

    "The producers scoured the entire country and auditioned thousands of singers to find the best, and now the three best are going to have a tough time making it into the group." truth

    Maybe it might be better the real talents don't make it, atleast they won't be dragging around the 19e ball and chain around their ankles the rest of their performing lives. I don't know much about 19e, but I read somewhere on the net that they have a tight control of all their singers(i guess most record labels do). Grace Leer got offers already, and I'm sure she'll have a lot more freedom if she ever signs with another company. I can't imagine Grace or some of the other girls doing that Cheesy burger video without looking at it later and saying, "Oh my, what did I do??"
    Last edited by yahright; 07-17-2003 at 07:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    I know what you mean. The AJ website even had the Thompson sister's photo in the pic section in the parking lot where they were signing up to tryout before any of them even stepped on stage. That was a sign of things to come. Maybe 19E should take the Thompson sis's and make them the next Mary Kate and Ashley instead. Did you know the Olsen twins are worth an estimated 300 million dollars, it's sick. Makes me wonder if the Olsens are human or was just two robots built by Steven Speilburgs AI team.
    If they really want to cash in, they should give the Thompsons sisters their own sitcom...although I cringe at the thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    You know what the sad thing is, is that America (or even 19e) will not make this a 5 girl group, but will put 2 boys in the group, and two of those girls you mentioned will be left out. Makes me wonder if the five are already picked, and the voting won't make a difference. Who knows how these things are operated. I'll still watch though.
    After the Thompsons, there is no real lock for the group...but you are thinking exactly what I thought that Chauncey will be next, then AJ after Chauncey cause America thinks Chauncey needs a guy to bond with. I will go out on a limb here and predict the final 5 to be: Tori, Taylor, Chauncey, AJ, Chantel...which isn't bad but could've been so much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    Maybe it might be better the real talents don't make it, atleast they won't be dragging around the 19e ball and chain around their ankles the rest of their performing lives. I don't know much about 19e, but I read somewhere on the net that they have a tight control of all their singers(i guess most record labels do). Grace Leer got offers already, and I'm sure she'll have a lot more freedom if she ever signs with another company. I can't imagine Grace or some of the other girls doing that Cheesy burger video without looking at it later and saying, "Oh my, what did I do??"
    As far as 19E's contracts, they are no different from standard record label deals.

    And I'm not addressing this towards you..but before I hear it again, I totally disagree with anyone who thinks that any of these kids are ready to go solo if they don't get voted into a group. None of them have enough charisma to carry themselves in a solo career yet...which makes a group situation the best situation for any of these performers...it's going to help them develop faster, but not too fast.
    Last edited by TheTruth; 07-17-2003 at 08:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    Maybe 19E should take the Thompson sis's and make them the next Mary Kate and Ashley instead. Did you know the Olsen twins are worth an estimated 300 million dollars, it's sick. Makes me wonder if the Olsens are human or was just two robots built by Steven Speilburgs AI team.
    No, they are worth about $80 million dollars. But what's sick about that? They have a very good lawyer/manager who has helped them build an empire of wholesome entertainment, books, videos, toys, and fashion. And they are well-respected in the industry for their character, charm, and business sense.

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    Jordan Fan + #1 Cedes fan trunks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTruth
    America got it right in American Idol when they chose talent over image...I know it's probably a very different set of people voting now but it's not too late to set things straight.

    I have nothing against Tori and Taylor...they aren't the two most talented but there's going to be FIVE people in the group, so I think America should now choose the THREE BEST singers to carry this group.
    Just something about the 2nd paragraph: the three best MAY not fit in with Tay and Tori. I'm not saying they don't, but you gotta vote for who wil fit in best.

    BTW, I dunno if someone already said that.

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    FORT Fan yahright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trunks
    Just something about the 2nd paragraph: the three best MAY not fit in with Tay and Tori. I'm not saying they don't, but you gotta vote for who wil fit in best.

    BTW, I dunno if someone already said that.
    Yah, I see your point. However, I do think america should pick the best from the start of this thing, but now that Tori and taylor is in the group, not sure if the older kids will mix with the thompsons and the barney and sesame street crowd(if that's the crowd they are looking at). Danielle and Jordan would be a better fit now. I can see Danielle holding her teddy bear and singing how great toys r us is and Jordan jumping around promoting Barbie dolls. Did you see Tori next to Katelyn, Chantel and Lucy? Tori looks like Mini me next to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trunks
    Just something about the 2nd paragraph: the three best MAY not fit in with Tay and Tori. I'm not saying they don't, but you gotta vote for who wil fit in best.

    BTW, I dunno if someone already said that.
    I think the purpose of my post may have been lost in there...

    What I'm saying is forget that Tori and Taylor have been voted in...don't vote in less talented singers just because they "complement" Tori and Taylor...that will just result in a mediocre singing group.

    What we should be doing is starting with a clean slate and voting the most talented in...leave it up to Tori and Taylor to worry about fitting in with who we vote in, not vice versa.

    Also...on the subject of fitting in (although I don't want to turn this into the "who fits in" thread)...if you watched the "United We Stand" performance, the best harmony came from the Lucy/Chantel/Katelyn trio...while the Tori/Taylor/Danielle/Jordan group just sounded awful- four light voices together...this is an example of why you should NOT form a group according to their height. We are trying to put together a SINGING group...the number one most important thing is how they sing...this group is going to need some power, and I think the harmonies will sound awful if Lucy or Chantel doesn't get in.
    Last edited by TheTruth; 07-17-2003 at 10:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yahright
    Yah, I see your point. However, I do think america should pick the best from the start of this thing, but now that Tori and taylor is in the group, not sure if the older kids will mix with the thompsons and the barney and sesame street crowd(if that's the crowd they are looking at). Danielle and Jordan would be a better fit now. I can see Danielle holding her teddy bear and singing how great toys r us is and Jordan jumping around promoting Barbie dolls. Did you see Tori next to Katelyn, Chantel and Lucy? Tori looks like Mini me next to them.
    I doubt they are looking at the "Barney and Sesame Street crowd"...don't worry about that Burger King promo- it was just a cheesy promo spot they do for the show (like those cheesy Ford ads for AI)...I don't think the real songs will be anything like that.

    I also think that everyone is underestimating Tori and Taylor...they have both picked some very grown-up songs to sing...and I think that they can handle more mature material (obviously not too mature...but you know what I'm saying). I really think this group should go in the direction of a young teen group...I'm not even sure young children would want to hear a "kid group."

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