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Thread: Clay as "God" in the aftermath of AI2

  1. #61
    Ruben is "Soulful" pillbeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaramarie
    ...............and my answer is so what. It's not hurting anyone. I find it humorous that people who do not wish to participate in the "Clayfest" continually come into the Clay thread in the first place. (mods excluded of course). If the gushing is just beyond comprehension...........then don't read it. Who cares if some clayniac thinks he's the next coming, there are plenty of delusional people in this world who are obsessed with worse things than a 24 yr goofy kid from NC.
    Hey Barbaramarie, I can assure you, I have never posted in the Clay thread. I didn't dare post anything cuz of fear of attack from some Clay fans. Recently I tried to lurk a little bit there, but I found some of the obsessive gushing about Clay's "saintliness" pretty unsettling (I sometimes wonder whether Clay would be comfortable reading some of this extreme stuff--I tend to doubt it). The expectations for him are too high.

    Grisabella, a lot of folks don't think Janis Joplin oversang that song. It's just my opinion, but the genius of Joplin (unlike Clay and the other AI contestants) is that she could run the gamut of emotions--singing soft, kinda soft, hard, harder, tender, then harsh. She packed more emotions singing a sentence than most performers can in an entire song.

  2. #62
    FORT Fogey nausicaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Janis Joplin, I think folks would agree, "oversang" Me And Bobby McGee -- and just about everything else she sang. Didn't seem to hurt her popularity none!
    I disagree. I'm with pillbeam on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Britney Spears is a great songwriter??? :eyeroll
    *confused* Huh? I never said that. If you had read my post carefully, you'd realize that I was using parallel structure, which implied that, in the same way Hendrix is a great guitarist and Avril Lavigne is a crappy one, Leonard Cohen is a wonderful songwriter and Britney can't write for sh*t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Barbra Streisand and Celine Dion don't write songs or play instruments, as far as I know. Neither did Frank Sinatra, Englebert Humperdinck, Johnny Mathis, or a bunch of other popular singers.
    You're right. But again, if you'd read my post more carefully, you'd realize I've never used absolutes in describing anything. I was merely making a point which *do* apply in a lot of cases. Furthermore, some of the singers which you mentioned are from a bygone era, and I think in today's music sphere, playing instruments or writing songs *does* help a lot in preserving or improving an artist's career. Case in point: the Backstreet Boys got a lot of flak because they couldn't do any of the above, and thus, were perceived as unoriginal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Most fans who listen to CDs don't know who wrote the song(s),* and they often don't know who is playing the instruments. It's not all that common, in fact, in pop music, for the LEAD guitarist to be the lead singer, too.
    Now you're talking about ensembles or groups. They're a different matter. And, for the record, many fans *do* care who wrote the songs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grisabella
    Paula Abdul used to get practically orgasmic just about every time Ruben opened his mouth or flashed his dimples. I never could quite fathom that, any more than a lot of non-Clayniacs can understand people who get that way about Clay. It's not something you can explain logically.
    Fair enough. My boyfriend tells me women are sensual creatures who rely more on intuition than reasoning, anyway.

    P.S. Sorry for the mess-up concerning the "underdog" thing. I was just trying to do the polite thing and give credit where credit is due.

  3. #63
    Rebel Prince Silvy's Avatar
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    There are many people (including celebrities and artists) who have done more than what Clay has done, whose personalities are equally as charming, but have had less "cult-like" followings. What makes him so unique?
    I personally still can't comprehend why he is so popular but I'm pretty sure I know why I am into Clay and not any other celebrity. I can't say for anyone else what their reason is.

    That's all I'm going to say. Arguing, debating, questioning, wondering about whatever you guys are talking about right now in this thread really isn't doing much for me but it seems you guys are having a blast with it. Now excuse me while I leave to dicuss my vision of Clay dancing in a candy store in a ClayLoveFest! chatroom. Mmmmmm.....fun......

  4. #64
    FORT Newbie camsgran's Avatar
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    Why are we Clay fans? He sounds amazing! His voice makes you stop and really listen. He is unique. He is refreshing. He has that certain indefinable something that makes one singer stand out from the crowd. He is a natural and with coaching will only get better.

    Something happened to thousands of people at the same time. His singing in the wildcard show made us sit up and take notice. After that week by week we became more convince that we had found something worth supporting.

    Nobody thinks he is their god, a saint, a leader. But we suspect he may be the next in a slim line of singers who are head and shoulder above the crowd. I guess only time will tell, but at least I will be able to say that I recognized what he was from the first time I heard him.
    "Once more into the breach, dear friends!"

  5. #65
    FORT Regular Barbaramarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam
    Hey Barbaramarie, I can assure you, I have never posted in the Clay thread. I didn't dare post anything cuz of fear of attack from some Clay fans.
    I know you don't pillbeam............I was speaking in general terms and not at you in particular. As far as getting attacked, if you said something mean about Clay - I'm sure they might (being optimistic with the might ) have pounced on your post........but I (and I think many others) appreciate comments, thoughts from Ruben fans most especially. Just as many Ruben fans like Clay but much prefer Ruben .........the same goes here. I think the point that most people (on the claylove side) are attempting to make is that there are a whole host of reasons why this phenomenon is happening. I guess we are all trying to share.................

  6. #66
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Nausicaa,
    I did read your post carefully, but without vocal inflection, that one sentence was ambiguous, and I read it wrong. If you had said,
    "...but does he write songs like Leonard Cohen, or does he write like Britney Spears?" I'd have known what you meant.
    (Substitute the name "Paul Simon" for Britney Spears in your sentence, and I think you'll see what I mean.)

    As for Janis, do you disagree that she oversang "Bobby McGee" (compared to the way Kris Kristofferson wrote and sang it and the way Gordon Lightfoot sang it) or that fans loved it?
    Frankly, I'd say Whitney Houston oversings a lot of her songs, too, but fans love it.

    I never suggested you were speaking in absolutes, but I disagree with the idea that to be a special entertainer you have to do more than one thing well.
    Billy Joel said on AI2 that he's successful because he is "competent" at several things he does -- singing, songwriting (lyrics and melodies), music arrangement, and playing the piano. As a package, he's supberb, and he might well have made it as a songwriter even if he didn't have the other skills. But I don't think he'd have made it big as just a pianist, much less as a singer.
    When someone is exceptional at ONE skill -- like Leo Kottke on guitar or Celine Dion on vocals -- they really don't have to be a Jack or Jill of all trades.

    Furthermore, some of the singers which you mentioned are from a bygone era, and I think in today's music sphere, playing instruments or writing songs *does* help a lot in preserving or improving an artist's career.
    Well, it's interesting that a lot of the songs I've been hearing on pop stations (while trying to hear Clay and Ruben) are covers. I wonder how many young fans are soo impressed with "Big Yellow Taxi" and thinking that someone from Counting Crows wrote it. Or that someone from Uncle Kracker wrote "Drift Away."

    In "bygone eras" some people known as "singers," such as Peggy Lee, Al Jolson, and Gene Autry, actually did write or co-write some of their hits. But no one called them "singer-songwriters." Today, it's kind of the opposite. Performers, if they also write songs, often get credit for writing their hits when they did not.
    There's a guy who died recently who covered "Knocking On Heaven's Door," for instance. I've heard 2 different DJs in the last week talk about how this guy was a gifted songwriter and how hard it is to write a really great song but he pulled it off. Both DJs stongly implied that he had witten KOHD -- which most of you know Bob Dylan wrote (and recorded first).

    All I'm saying is that, while some stars rise to fame largely because of their original compositions, a lot of them don't -- even if they are songwriters.
    BTW, if songwriting is so key, especially lyrics, why isn't Bernie Taupin as big a star as Elton John? Or Gerry Goffin as Carole King? Or Hal David as Burt Bacharach?

    Yes, many fans *do* care who wrote the songs. But that doesn't mean the KNOW who did!

    My boyfriend tells me women are sensual creatures who rely more on intuition than reasoning, anyway.
    As opposed to men--who often name their private parts because they like to be on a first-name basis with the guy who's in charge, right?
    Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. ;-D

  7. #67
    FORT Fogey sonormal's Avatar
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    I just wanted everyone to know how great I think ya'll are, even when ya'll get gripey!

    HUGS!

  8. #68
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Hey, Grant. I hope ya don't think nausicaa and moi are "gripey!" We're just revelling in our diversity of perspective!
    Spread the love!!

    Good ta have ya back, BTW!
    Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. ;-D

  9. #69
    It's sensei time! Masai & Pygmie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam
    Thanks so much, Nausicaa, for this thread. I too have felt uncomfortable with the reaction by some Clayzies....I and other Ruben fans adore Ruben's music as much as Clay fans adore Clay's. And Ruben fans are very impressed with Ruben's warm, spiritual personality, keen knowledge of music and sexy dimples. But we do not worship him and are not particularly obsessed with him.
    Still can't believe there are more viewers in this forum that TAR that just finished airing a couple an hour ago.

    As you say that Clay has his Clayzies, are you also saying the Ruben does not have any Pubens?
    "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." -- Henry David Thoreau

  10. #70
    It's sensei time! Masai & Pygmie's Avatar
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    Hey grant...your av changed. Have you toned down? How are you goin?
    "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." -- Henry David Thoreau

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