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Thread: Clay as "God" in the aftermath of AI2

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    Okay.. This is not Clay's thread so I can trush him a little bit.. hehe

    Yes.. Invisible is a pop song.. However for Clay to sing that song.. he loses what made him so special in the first place.. which is to show his voice with a lot of range and power. Come on.. Anybody can sing Invisible.. even Justin Timberlake.. or anyone of Nysc's members.

    awwww, how sweet.....I'm glad you think Clay is special too.

    If he did sing something showing off his range and the power notes, someone, somewhere would complain its too broadway.
    Why is it that kamikaze gnats always aim for my drink?

  2. #52
    FORT Fan SpaceTiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    There is no doubt that Clay can sing. But I think Simon is absolately correct when he said Clay is more suited for Boardway than Pop Music.
    I realize this is an opinion and possibly true, but at what point do people who buy into this theory say... well maybe he can be a pop star too?

    I feel this is the main reason there are so many Claynatics. When you believe in something or someone and you are told... I don't see the same thing you see, as a matter of fact I don't see it at all. I can see the defense mechanism kick in and the Claynatics try everything within their power to show others what they see... Thus CDs are bought, Clayisms are born, and panties are thrown.

    I could be way off base, but I always thought the "pop" in pop-music or pop-star was short for popular. So, when someone says he is not suited for pop-music or to be a pop-star (even though the comment is not meant to be offensive) it leaves the impression Clay is not meant for the masses. I always felt the masses were what dictated what was "pop".

    Yes, I understand and can not stress enough that I realize this is all opinion on everyone's part, but I offer this as a possible explaination to why some Clay fans are viewed as "extra" passionately defensive about Clay. Simon may have started the fire, but lighter fluid continues to be doused on the fire. It may never go out.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishin I was 24
    awwww, how sweet.....I'm glad you think Clay is special too.

    If he did sing something showing off his range and the power notes, someone, somewhere would complain its too broadway.
    catch-22.

    I never said that Clay is not good.. just that he is not as good as Ruben.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    catch-22.

    I never said that Clay is not good.. just that he is not as good as Ruben.

    They're both great singers....just different....different as night and day,

    or gold and platinum..
    Why is it that kamikaze gnats always aim for my drink?

  5. #55
    Ruben is "Soulful" pillbeam's Avatar
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    Again, I think the question is not so much what makes Clay appealing (we can see that he has Southern charm, an amazing voice, a cute smile, articulate comments, a good sense of humor and intriguing geekiness). It's the overwhelming, obsessive fervor of some Clay fans that is puzzling. Again, I think it may stem from his perceived underdog status for so much of the AI show. For many weeks there must have been hundreds (thousands?) of angry FORT posts about Simon's and the media's comments about Clay. There was so much hand-wringing that Clay reached a kind of martyr status here.

    Nausicca, I think you've brought up another interesting angle "Also, I think this whole infatuation thing may have something to do w/ Clay's delicate and feyish looks. Girls (and mothers!) may not *really* want him as their husband, but he brings out the maternal instinct in them."

    Clay's feminine side is pretty open, and there may be something compelling about that for some women (and girls). Maybe it's a kind of non-threatening sexuality that appeals so strongly to some women....

  6. #56
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    Maybe anyone could sing "Invisible," but not everyone would sound as good doing it! Some "pop" stars have really nice (resonant, rich) voices, and others sound like teen-agers with no range and no idea what a diaphragm is for. In the latter cases, no one would listen to them if it weren't for the song itself, the rhythm track, other catchy aspects to the instrumental arrangement, etc., and maybe their flashy showmanship.
    IMO, Clay illustrated this well in the various "covers" he did in his Raleigh CDs and on AI2. There were 8 songs Clay did on AI2 where I PREFERRED Clay's version to the original hit and 3 others where I thought they were different but equal (apples and oranges). On his Raleigh CDs there were at least 7 songs I'd heard by other artists but where I thought Clay sounded better than they did.
    I could not say that about very many of the AI2 contestants' "covers." (IMO, Kim L and Ruben achieved this a few times but not nearly as often as Clay did.)
    ----------------

    Nausicaa, for the record I specifically DISCREDITED the "underdog" thing as an explanation for why most Clay fans "fell in love" with his voice or looks or both. And what Clay triggers in me, though I'm biologically old enough to be his grandmother, is hardly "maternal." And I don't think I'm alone there.
    In a realistic sense, yes, my concern for him is more that of someone who'd like to be his artistic advisor or manager, with an eye to his longevity as a performer. Few of us fans, especially those of us who are not of his generation, entertain hopes of being his lover, but it isn't because he doesn't inspire that sort of fantasy.
    "WishinIWas24's" screen name says it all. The fantasy is that I'M 25 again and ... well, you can fill in the rest.
    Believe me, if I'd met Clay (or someone who is like what his public persona SEEMS like) when I was 20-something, or maybe even a bit older, I'd have been interested -- even the way he looked in the Charlotte audition.
    What you call the "fey" aspects of Clay's mannerisms, in fact, would lessen my interest if they were predominant, but more often than not he doesn't display this kind of mannerism. (In other words, Clay doesn't "trigger my maternal instincts" because he seems weak, effeminate, or helpless; he doesn't SEEM weak, effeminate, or helpless to me, though he can, paradoxically seem like an overgrown 10-year-old and an exceptionally mature young man, with an "old soul," at the same time.)

    --------
    As for the rabid fans turning others off, remember that it's probably a small minority of pop music fans (or AC fans) who hang out in on-line chat rooms where Clay is discussed at length. A lot of people hear songs on the radio or check out on-line download sites to hear songs, and they don't even know what the buzz is about the artist. If radio stations play Clay's songs and listeners like them, I doubt they will be dissuaded from that because of what Clayniacs are doing at the FORT or LBFCA or BOLT.
    Last edited by Grisabella; 07-17-2003 at 07:18 PM.
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  7. #57
    FORT Regular Barbaramarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillbeam
    Again, I think the question is not so much what makes Clay appealing (we can see that he has Southern charm, an amazing voice, a cute smile, articulate comments, a good sense of humor and intriguing geekiness). It's the overwhelming, obsessive fervor of some Clay fans that is puzzling.
    ...............and my answer is so what. It's not hurting anyone. I find it humorous that people who do not wish to participate in the "Clayfest" continually come into the Clay thread in the first place. (mods excluded of course). If the gushing is just beyond comprehension...........then don't read it. Who cares if some clayniac thinks he's the next coming, there are plenty of delusional people in this world who are obsessed with worse things than a 24 yr goofy kid from NC.
    Pillbeam, it's puzzling to you and others because it's something you are trying to understand and cannot. As a Clay fan not quite walking that delusional line, I cannot not help you to understand because most of us can't really put our fingers on it either.
    So my philosophy is have fun.....enjoy and who cares what others think.

  8. #58
    On My Way Here Grisabella's Avatar
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    A few other thoughts triggered by what y'all have said above:

    ---Janis Joplin, I think folks would agree, "oversang" Me And Bobby McGee -- and just about everything else she sang. Didn't seem to hurt her popularity none!

    ---Britney Spears is a great songwriter??? :eyeroll

    ---Barbra Streisand and Celine Dion don't write songs or play instruments, as far as I know. Neither did Frank Sinatra, Englebert Humperdinck, Johnny Mathis, or a bunch of other popular singers.

    ---Most fans who listen to CDs don't know who wrote the song(s),* and they often don't know who is playing the instruments. It's not all that common, in fact, in pop music, for the LEAD guitarist to be the lead singer, too.

    ---Paula Abdul used to get practically orgasmic just about every time Ruben opened his mouth or flashed his dimples. I never could quite fathom that, any more than a lot of non-Clayniacs can understand people who get that way about Clay. It's not something you can explain logically.

    ---Both Clay's and Ruben's CD songs seem to be a perfect fit with the music played on AC stations, if not with the top 40 stations. (Even the top 40 stations play SOME songs that are similar to TITN, Superstar, BOTW and FWW.) So I don't understand the "suited for Broadway but not for pop music" comments.
    Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. ;-D

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceTiger
    .....I could be way off base, but I always thought the "pop" in pop-music or pop-star was short for popular. So, when someone says he is not suited for pop-music or to be a pop-star (even though the comment is not meant to be offensive) it leaves the impression Clay is not meant for the masses. I always felt the masses were what dictated what was "pop".
    My thoughts exactly, SpaceTiger. I've been thinking all along that some folks seem to forget where the "pop" originated.

  10. #60
    u rock i rock lets kiss! ClayAiken#1Fan's Avatar
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    I think that Clay can sing anything I mean he can sing pop, jazz, and slow and I still do not get that you have to be able to sing pop to get that famous!
    I lOvE clay aiken

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