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Originally Posted by Grisabella;2288133;
Au contraire. For a reality TV contestant to go on to parlay that appearance into a role that wins a friggin' Oscar? Huge. Perhaps not in the department of cashola directly earned, but in the department of "Legitimacy of the Show." They'll be milking that one for a while.
To change the subject a bit: I got my Taylor tee shirt yesterday. Yeah! Thanks, bbnbama, for the link.
I wish Taylor had released "Where I Lay My Hat" as his first single. It's such a great song and a nice tribute to Marvin Gaye. His Diane Warren-penned song would have been a great choice, too! It's entitled "Places Where I've Been." If you haven't heard these two, you should try to as they are both terrific and better for air play.
You're probably right. They'll milk whatever cash cows they can and take credit for the achievements of any of their brood.
I just meant that winning an Oscar (or Grammy) hasn't always led to continued great success in either film or music and it remains to be seen where Jennifer will go from here. If she doesn't stay in the Hollywood spotlight, she'll probably also fade from the Idol spotlight. Right now they couldn't ignore her if they wanted to.
Doug, I don't dispute your statements about Carrie being the #2 best seling Idol (in fact, I already stated that, above) or Chris's song being a good fit for the results show. I'm just not sure it's just a coincidence that Chris happened to write a song that would fit that spot, nor do I think it's terribly relevant that Clay is not as "hot" as he was in 2003 and 2004, because we're talking about a montage TPTB ran highlighting Idol successes such as "award winners" (Carrie, Kelly, and Jennifer) and "double platinum" artists.
Fantasia isn't as "hot" as she once was, either, at least in terms of CD sales (and while she landed a great role on Broadway and will probably be very good, we don't yet know how well she'll do). Chris is off to a great start (aided and abetted by the Idol folks in a way they've never before done for a non-winner, much less a 4th-place finisher - right, Tamyra?), but as of that broadcast his debut album hadn't caught up with MOAM and wasn't far ahead of Ruben's debut album.
(I'll leave Bo out of this discussion, since his first year was seriously interrupted by illness and injury, and I didn't really expect them to picture him in the montage.)
?? Why? They didn't picture the winner of AI2?If Jennifer wasn't winning awards, Fantasia, who has also cooled off, might not have been shown b/c they had to have the winner of AI3 in the package.
Sales don't exist in a vacuum.Obviously the judges wanted Chris over Taylor, but sales are sales.
For whatever reasons -- and I think a lot of the reasons lie with RCA/19R decisions -- Carrie and Chris were allowed and encouraged to make debut albums that not only had really good, radio friendly songs and arrangements but also showcased their natural, individual styles. (And, no, it's not all about songwriting ability, because some of the biggest Idols' hits were not penned by the singers.) Most of the others, winners or not, were pushed into rushed, prefab albums with second-rate arrangments and production values.
Tamyra provides a great contrast in treatment compared with both Kellie and Chris.Judge faves don't always sell big like Tamyra.
One can only wonder what would have happened with her if she had been allowed to release and album, with the hype and backing of 19R, about 6 months after AI1 ended. Even Justin G didn't get to put his CD out that soon.
I can understand why they didn't show Taylor in that particular montage, as it was written, because his album isn't platinum yet and he hasn't gotten any awards (except Sexiest Bachelor or whatever it was, for People)Taylor's slow sales compared to prior winners would have taken the punch out of selling the importance of idol for the promo from TPTB's view and w/ Kelly, Carrie, Jenny and Chris red hot they are riding that wave to show the power of AI.But they could have pictured him more prominently with the other winners and made references to him in other ways during the show.
And in a montage like the one they did, it would have been both simple and obvious (natural) to have pictured Clay too when mentioning "multiple platinum selling artists." In fact, they could easily have said "platinum and multiple-platinum selling recording artists" and pictured Clay, Fantasia, and Ruben in addition to Chris.
I don't buy that. First, Taylor's album hasn't been out all that long, and he really hasn't gotten the support from 19/RMG that previous winners have gotten (as I outlined above). Second, in spite of Clay's last (mandated "covers) album being only Gold, he is still way ahead of almost all the others in concert success (especially solo concerts), book sales, and CD sales. His being snubbed and hamstrung by 19 - which began in 2004, at the height of his popularity - is a perfect example of Idol not always "embracing" their star alumni. In fact, up till this fall, they (e.g., Nigel) said outright that they thought it was important for the official winners to get the most support; they wanted the viewers to realize how important it was to vote. They have really shifted gears this past year, and I think a good part of that is because, for once, they were not able to manipulate the viewer/voters into "crowning" their chosen one.If Taylor was selling big, he would have been featured prominently. Idol embraces its star alumni and downplays those not as hot.
Well, I do think TPTB are disappointed that Fantasia's not yet the phenom Simon predicted her to be. But he also has a tendency to forget how incredible he thought last year's great "find" was when the next crop comes along. Every season he tells someone they are the best singer (yadda yadda) of all the seasons. I also think Simon had "chosen" Kelly by the time Tamyra got booted.... if judge/producer love equaled sales Fantasia would be bigger than Kelly. Idol fans already know Taylor so he has to get airplay on radio or open for a big artist to win new fans and sell the amount of discs the winner normally does. Idol exposure can only do so much and Taylor doesn't seem to want much help from idol anyhow from his comments and actions.
I agree that Taylor (probably much to the chagrin of Simon Fuller and Clive Davis) doesn't seem to be all that invested in topping the Billboard charts and winning Grammys. He and Bo seem to be the sort that are much more focused on doing their own thing musically and making a decent living at it than on being international superstars. I just wish TPTB at Idol would give them a little more recognition though.
Hey Grisabella, you certainly know your subject, but in order to avoid quoting your whole post (I can't for the life of me figure out how to do that partial quote thing, perhaps I'm slow on the uptake) anyway I just wanted to correct one small thing. You said:
I can understand why they didn't show Taylor in that particular montage, as it was written, because his album isn't platinum yet
Actually Taylors album was Certified Platinum 30 days after original release. Remember certifications aren't based on scanned sales but are based on shipments from the labels to the retailers. Taylors album shipped Platinum.
Argus Leader - Entertainment
By Robert Morast
rmorast@argusleader.com
published: 03/22/07
There's really only one explanation for Taylor Hicks' unlikely victory on "American Idol" last spring: Television viewers fell in love him.
They loved the then-29-year-old's gray-speckled hair. They cheered his jerky dancing. They praised his imperfect, throaty voice that sounds a bit like Michael McDonald. They copied his "whoo" shout. And they loathed the fact that "Idol" judge Simon Cowell stated Hicks never could win the talent competition.
So they proved the power of audience influence, flooded the "Idol" call centers with votes and the Alabama native became the latest "Idol" star to find instant celebrity.
Yet, while Hicks was the fans' choice last spring, he's been getting dogged in the new year. His record sales are far behind those of his fellow 2006 "Idol" hopeful Chris Daughtry - his rock-centric self-titled disc has sold more than 1.7 million copies, while Hicks has sold only 640,000.
And last year's "Idol" runner-up, Katharine McPhee, has more celebrity status as a rising pop sexpot.
But as Hicks prepares for a Saturday night concert in Sioux City, Iowa's, Orpheum Theatre, the sudden second - or third - place status doesn't seem to bother him.
In fact, the entire idea of celebrity competition doesn't seem to register as a viable thinking point under Hicks' gray hair. Speaking from a phone in New Orleans, the singer kept his answers short and to the point. Here's what he said about his "Idol" days, Cowell's opinion and his future in the music biz.
Question: Do you think you have more pressure to succeed, in terms of record sales, than the "Idol" losers like Katharine McPhee or Chris Daughtry?
Answer: You know, I don't put any extra pressure on myself to sell records. All I know is that you write the music and record it and tour it. I guess you could say it's old fashioned.
Q: For every "Idol" winner outside of Kelly Clarkson, the big question seems to involve staying power. How are you planning to still be relevant in 2009?
A: Tour.
Q: How much? There are punk bands who seem to tour 300 days a year. Do you want to tour that much?
A: I was almost like that for a long time.
Q: Really?
A: I just did as many dates as I could, wherever they would have me. I probably played 15 shows a month. That's like 200 shows a year. (Editor's note: It's actually 180 shows a year.)
Q: It's well documented that Simon Cowell was a severe critic of your singing abilities. But as an "Idol" performer, was his opinion the only one that mattered to you guys?
A: No. I mean, you know who's opinion mattered?
Q: Who's that?
A: America's.
Q: How about the opinions of Randy Jackson and Paula Abdul, did you care about them?
A: Oh, yeah, you listen to what they had to say. Some nights you understood it. Some nights you didn't.
Q:Was it competitive among the
"Idol" finalists?
A: I really didn't feel any competitiveness, because I was out to entertain people. I was out to try to make an audience for myself.
Q: In speaking with you briefly, and reading past interviews, you don't seem like a guy who cares about stardom, just the music. Is that accurate?
A: As you can get it.
Q: OK, so if someone offered you $80,000 to $90,000 a year to play and write the songs you want but without stardom, would you be fine with it?
A: As long I've got a decent 401(k) plan, I'm happy. That's all I wanted in the first place, a steady gig, man.
Q: People love you. I have women here in my office who smile when your name is mentioned. Why do they find you so adorable?
A: I have no idea. I mean, I don't know. Honestly, I was kind of analyzing that ... I don't know. That's a good question. That's not a bad thing, though.
Q: How's your love life?
A: It's pretty much dormant. Mostly all work, all the time.
Q: How much freedom were you given in the studio? Were you able to record what you wanted, or was there a perceived "Idol" identity you had to capture?
A: If you listen to the record, I think it's definitely a good representation of who I am as an artist.
Q: But don't you think some "Idol" fans who loved your music on the show might be surprised by the album's content?
A: I think it's a little bit of both. I think we did a great job of bridging the gap of my artistry and the show, where I'm moving forward to.
Q: Where are you going? What's your music going to be like in two years on your next album?
A: I just think it will be great songs. I'm into songs. I'm a songwriter.
Q: What kind of songs, like what genre, R&B, soul, rock? Do you care?
A: I think it will just be songs. Great songs. I don't know which genre. I like all kinds.
Q: I saw that your No. 1 friend on MySpace is the jam band Widespread Panic. Are you a big jam band fan?
A: I was in a Widespread Panic cover band when I was in college. A lot of my live music is based on jam band principles.
Q: I saw a few people dressed like you for Halloween last year. What would you say if you met some impersonators?
A: I'd probably laugh. I'd probably make them do the "whoo" thing, make them get into character.
Q: How much of your on-stage presence is a character? Is that really you?
A: I'm me. I'm an entertainer on stage. I guess whatever makes up Taylor the entertainer on stage is me. I'm pretty quiet off stage.
My Fox St. Louis video/interview link
MyFox St. Louis | Taylor Hicks in St. Charles
You can copy and paste any segment of text, highlight it and hit the "Quote" button (second button from right, bottom row). Then make your comment, then repeat for a second excerpt, as needed.
You are so right, razorback. And I knew about Taylor's Platinum certification but it had slipped my mind.*... anyway I just wanted to correct one small thing. You said:
I can understand why they didn't show Taylor in that particular montage, as it was written, because his album isn't platinum yet
Actually Taylors album was Certified Platinum 30 days after original release. Remember certifications aren't based on scanned sales but are based on shipments from the labels to the retailers. Taylors album shipped Platinum.
Thanks so much for setting the record straight.
This makes Taylor's omission from that montage even less excusable. All they needed to do was substitute "platinum and multiple-platinum selling recording artists" for "double platinum rock artists," and they could logically and naturally have included shots of Taylor, Clay, and Ruben along with Kelly, Chris, Fantasia, and Jennifer.
The way they did it, it seemed like, instead of trying to really flaunt all their big successes, they're trying to make people forget anyone who isn't all over the awards shows or at the top of the Billboard charts right at the moment. And anyone who wasn't their "chosen one."
I'm not begrudging Chris his well-deserved success or 19's support of him, but I do think if the viewers' votes mean anything, TPTB at Idol should be supporting the winner as much as they can, at least during their first year.
*By the way, RCA managed to pull some strings to get Chris's album certified platinum before the mandatory 30-day waiting period specified in RIAA's own rules. (This was also done by another label for another artist, so I don't know what gives, but it clearly amounts to a bending of the rules for some but not others.)
By doing this, they add to the buzz that Daughtry is more successful than Taylor, because people can look up the list of RIAA Awards for 2006 and see Daughtry's platinum certification (which, according to the rules, would not have been awarded at the time that list was published), but you can't find Taylor's certifications listed at the RIAA website or in a published list, because the certification was made after the 2006 list was published and the RIAA database is way overdue for its semi-annual update.
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