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Thread: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

  1. #51
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Almost every cab in Bangkok is pink. They are almost always clean and many are "decorated". I was in one that had a hand painted mural of the King and Queen on the roof lining. Most have fresh flowers, also. However, they still drive like NYC cab drivers. :-)
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  2. #52
    8/2/64 until forever! AZChristian's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    I think the most unconscionable behavior in this week's episode was the engaged couple who attempted to stiff the taxi driver because THEY thought he was charging too much.

    I have "discussed" the fare with a taxi driver in a foreign country, but I always made sure I understood the currency exchange rate first, and only got into the "discussion" when I was sure there was an attempt to take advantage of me because I was a tourist. (A taxi driver in Paris attempted to charge us twice as much for the same ride we'd taken 2 days before.)

    And when the woman who spoke some English tried to intervene, they were extremely rude to her, "We don't even know who SHE is!" Guess what? She didn't know who YOU were either, other than that you were trying to rip off a taxi driver. And then when she asked them to stay while she called the police, they responded with something like, "We don't have time to wait for the police. We're in a race." Arrogant much?

    People like that make it much harder for the rest of us to travel internationally, because we have to overcome the rudeness of those who have been there before. While the surfers were vocal (to the camera) about their beliefs, they were not confrontational or demanding towards those in the temple.

  3. #53
    Ellie May SugarMama's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by AZChristian View Post
    I think the most unconscionable behavior in this week's episode was the engaged couple who attempted to stiff the taxi driver because THEY thought he was charging too much.

    I have "discussed" the fare with a taxi driver in a foreign country, but I always made sure I understood the currency exchange rate first, and only got into the "discussion" when I was sure there was an attempt to take advantage of me because I was a tourist. (A taxi driver in Paris attempted to charge us twice as much for the same ride we'd taken 2 days before.)

    And when the woman who spoke some English tried to intervene, they were extremely rude to her, "We don't even know who SHE is!" Guess what? She didn't know who YOU were either, other than that you were trying to rip off a taxi driver. And then when she asked them to stay while she called the police, they responded with something like, "We don't have time to wait for the police. We're in a race." Arrogant much?

    People like that make it much harder for the rest of us to travel internationally, because we have to overcome the rudeness of those who have been there before. While the surfers were vocal (to the camera) about their beliefs, they were not confrontational or demanding towards those in the temple.
    I agree on both points!

    The engaged couple has an unhealthy sense of entitlement, and you're right - sometimes those people are the only Americans many foreigners meet, and it creates a really bad image.

    The Surfer Dudes were not rude or condescending, in my opinion, they were merely expressing their own opinions - and it WAS to the camera. Being different and speaking about it doesn't have to be an attack or an offense. Would someone gasp and faint if a Muslim or a Jew made a comment in a barbeque restaurant about not being able to eat the food because it's pig, and in a nice way no less? Should those dining there get upset? People get way too uptight over these things sometimes.

    And how very interesting that that cut-n-snipped blurb from the Dudes was followed by the sister's comments (obviously answering a question, posed by the camerman?). Editing and production-driven storyline. No amount of editing can make me like the brother/sister over the Dudes, who have displayed a great attitude in this race so far, unlike Justin/Jennifer. Reminds me of that old saying, "actions speak louder than words."
    To return evil for good is devilish; to return good for good is human; to return good for evil is Divine - Alistair Begg

  4. #54
    FORT Fogey Duckyface's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Newsboi View Post
    The boarders sure do feel compeled to let us know that they are straight and Christian. Insecure, much, dudes??
    You do realize that the crew of Amazing Race ask the contestants questions and then edit their replies however they want to? I doubt the snowboarders go around talking about their straightness or their religion a lot, but when asked a question, by people who want to stereotype each couple on the race into a certain box, you answer it having no idea how they might edit it. You also answer it off the cuff, so I wouldn't take this stuff so seriously, dude

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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarMama View Post
    I agree on both points!

    The engaged couple has an unhealthy sense of entitlement, and you're right - sometimes those people are the only Americans many foreigners meet, and it creates a really bad image.

    The Surfer Dudes were not rude or condescending, in my opinion, they were merely expressing their own opinions - and it WAS to the camera. Being different and speaking about it doesn't have to be an attack or an offense. Would someone gasp and faint if a Muslim or a Jew made a comment in a barbeque restaurant about not being able to eat the food because it's pig, and in a nice way no less? Should those dining there get upset? People get way too uptight over these things sometimes.

    And how very interesting that that cut-n-snipped blurb from the Dudes was followed by the sister's comments (obviously answering a question, posed by the camerman?). Editing and production-driven storyline. No amount of editing can make me like the brother/sister over the Dudes, who have displayed a great attitude in this race so far, unlike Justin/Jennifer. Reminds me of that old saying, "actions speak louder than words."

    I agree about the engaged couple having behaved very poorly, though I give them some credit--not a lot, but some--for recognizing it and admitting it. I would have preferred they had actually apologized to the people they had offended, however.

    We're obviously never going to agree about the Snowboarders' comments, but I take issue with the idea that it would be the same as Muslims or Jews complaining about not being able to eat the pork in a barbecue restaurant, which I'm sure was meant to be an exaggeration as devout Jews and Muslims aren't likely to select a barbecue restaurant as a place to eat. A restaurant is nobody's idea of a sacred space, but the temple and temple grounds were sacred to the Buddhists. And the when the first snowboarder made his comments to the camera, he was working on reassembling the spirit house, and the woman who was the judge was in the frame of the shot, so obviously she could hear him too. He has every right to have his opinion, but expressing them in that way at that time was not, IMO, a particularly appropriate move. Even if the camera man had posed the question, the way he phrased his answer was his business, and I don't think he did it well. I did think Jennifer did it better. I said it made me like her better, but no, it doesn't erase their past behavior for me either. As far as actions speaking louder than words, that doesn't mean that words can't be chosen more wisely and that when they're not, that people have the right to wish that they had been or to take offense at what was said. I also haven't entirely agreed with the snowboarders' actions either, since one of them suggested sharing answers with the teams they wanted to keep around and controlling the game by doing so. They're funny, they're athletic, and they remain cool under pressure, but if they keep considering actions that aren't the cleanest way to race or making remarks that bother me, I'm going to keep liking them less and less.
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  6. #56
    Ellie May SugarMama's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    but I take issue with the idea that it would be the same as Muslims or Jews complaining about not being able to eat the pork in a barbecue restaurant, which I'm sure was meant to be an exaggeration as devout Jews and Muslims aren't likely to select a barbecue restaurant as a place to eat. A restaurant is nobody's idea of a sacred space, but the temple and temple grounds were sacred to the Buddhists. And the when the first snowboarder made his comments to the camera, he was working on reassembling the spirit house, and the woman who was the judge was in the frame of the shot, so obviously she could hear him too. He has every right to have his opinion, but expressing them in that way at that time was not, IMO, a particularly appropriate move. Even if the camera man had posed the question, the way he phrased his answer was his business, and I don't think he did it well. I did think Jennifer did it better. I said it made me like her better, but no, it doesn't erase their past behavior for me either. As far as actions speaking louder than words, that doesn't mean that words can't be chosen more wisely and that when they're not, that people have the right to wish that they had been or to take offense at what was said....
    just to be accurate, in my example I never said anything about someone complaining...I said "making a comment" - which is exactly what Surfer Dudes were doing. It will be a very sad time, in my opinion, when we will have to always tiptoe around each other in worry about offending someone. There will always be that risk, especially in areas of religion. No one ever died from being offended (unless they started a fight over it). Perhaps TAR should take this into future consideration and just make all religious symbols and places off limits. OR they could choose to not show clips of any comments.
    To return evil for good is devilish; to return good for good is human; to return good for evil is Divine - Alistair Begg

  7. #57
    Got wings 9/19/2012 buglover's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Just as with friends and family..........religion and politics should always be topics that shouldn't be discussed. People are going to have their own views and most will never agree with the other. I don't even talk about religion with my own hubby. We can agree to disagree and that keeps us happily together. I love other people's views on religion and I never take them personally but I never force my views on them as I do realize that most of the world can find things offensive.
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  8. #58
    Ellie May SugarMama's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by buglover View Post
    Just as with friends and family..........religion and politics should always be topics that shouldn't be discussed. People are going to have their own views and most will never agree with the other. I don't even talk about religion with my own hubby. We can agree to disagree and that keeps us happily together. I love other people's views on religion and I never take them personally but I never force my views on them as I do realize that most of the world can find things offensive.
    I agree - which is why I have to wonder why TAR chose to even create that "drama" last night by putting in the Dudes' clip, followed by Jennifer's. All designed to stir up the crap that has since been stirred - for whatever reason, it worked. I think the ratings would be just fine without it.
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    To return evil for good is devilish; to return good for good is human; to return good for evil is Divine - Alistair Begg

  9. #59
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    The big issue, for myself personally, with the snowboarders' comments, was the fact that it was made in a place that is obviously important spiritually to the people who worship there. It was not made on the street, in the hotel, or in a restaurant, it was made in the equivalent of a church. Jennifer had it right when she said she would be respectful in the hope that the same respect would be shown in her place of worship. For all we know, the contestants who revealed a definite religious affiliation were asked about how they felt being in this environment, merely to get a sound byte. However, this doesn't excuse the snowboarders' reply from appearing to many to be rude and inconsiderate, particularly given where the interview/question was asked and answered. They came across as insular and, sadly, ungracious. I'm sure if you pushed them further, they would be sad to think they had offended anyone, as they do seem like nice, fun-loving guys. Perhaps seeing how this came across might make them reconsider how they would approach such a situation were it to happen again. I'd like to think so.

    If someone from a different faith had made similar comments while in a Christian church, you can bet a whole lot of people would be offended. And this, sadly, is why religious intolerance continues to drive dissention and foster strife between cultures. JMHO.
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  10. #60
    FORT Fogey Babbred's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    Since I'm the one who inadvertently started the religious debate, I went back and checked to see exactly what the Snowboarders said. Here it is:

    Tommy, who was doing the task and a few feet away from the woman who was the judge: Andy and I both are Christians, and it's been interesting with the Buddhist temples and these tasks, but, you know, God is definitely greater than a temple.

    Andy, to the camera, further away from the woman but still on the temple grounds: I don't feel, like, any weird vibes coming here, but we know the one true God, and it's pretty straight forward when you read the Bible.

    I didn't find their comments particularly offensive, but I freely admit that I'm biased since I was raised in the church. Because of my background, my instinctive reaction was to translate thus: "It's been interesting experiencing these different faiths, but I believe that God is above all other religions. Even though God isn't worshiped here, I don't feel uncomfortable because I believe in what I think is the only God, and I believe the Bible means exactly what it says when it talks about him."

    I have traveled to various countries and visited various places of worship. I even had a priest in one of those temples try to convert me. I wasn't offended, because of course he would want to do that. I just politely thanked him and we agreed to disagree. I have felt the same way about the friends of different faiths that I have had.

    The only slight issue I might have with the boarders is, as you have said, the issue of timing. However, we're assuming a couple of things. A) The woman could hear what they said, and B) that she understood. We don't know either of those things. You don't need to speak fluent English to understand that a contestant is wanting to know if they completed the task. It should be obvious from their body language, and then a simple "ok" and that's it.

    For me, I look at a person's actions. Yes, Jennifer said words that sounded perfect, but the essence of Christianity is love and she's hardly been very loving towards her brother. Even if you grant that the boarders' actions weren't appropriate, I have found the other contestants to be far, far more offensive. That father who refused to let his son take notes and then boasted that he wouldn't have needed them totally turned me off. And Cindy and Ernie with their patronizing, insulting treatment of their cab driver was just pathetic.

    Nothing on reality tv is real. ITM's are not spontaneous; they are prompted by the guys behind the camera. Those statements are then carefully edited to create an image of the type of contestant they want. Anybody who wants to learn more about this should read the blogs during The Bachelor. Numerous contestants have come forward over the years and said they didn't recognize the version of themselves portrayed on the show, that it was done with manipulated footage, etc. From the way the all the religious comments were juxtaposed, I firmly believe that the producers wanted to tarnish the image of the snowboarders and create controversy to get people talking.

    Speaking of Cindy and Ernie from above, did anybody else find it a little disturbing how Ernie put himself down for not doing well at a challenge, and Cindy didn't contradict him? How he wondered how somebody as brilliant as she could love somebody as mediocre as him? This does not sound like a healthy relationship.

    I love Ma and Pa more with every race. And it was cool to see them getting respect from the other contestants when that guy said he was afraid of racing them.

    I will really miss the twins. Talk about great attitude! I think it would be cool to get to wash an elephant.

    That reminds me, though. I was totally confused about how they ran out of money. Did their cab driver try to stiff them? Or did it have something to do with their not having the proper money?
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