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Thread: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

  1. #31
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    In regards to the snowboarders comments, I think they seemed more offensive than they might have otherwise simply because Jennifer was shown immediately after saying that even though she didn't hold the same beliefs, she wanted to be respectful. That combined with the really laid back attitude that the snowboarders have had up to this point took some of their likeability away. They just came across far less tolerant than Jennifer.

    Had to applaud the twins. I felt before that they were very whiney and annoying, but this leg they were appreciative and accepting of their circumstances, and I really liked that they were reluctant to beg for charity. I remember years ago after Jonathan and Victoria's season Jonathan bragging that he used to make $100 a leg begging from locals, even in impoverished countries. Kudos to the twins for not wanting to take money out of the pockets of people who really don't have anything to give, especially to Americans on a game show.

    For me though, it's dad Sunderland that's the most offensive of this season. I've disliked him ever since he talked to the media about how he didn't see anything wrong with letting his minor children circumnavigate the globe solo. Always felt back then that even if Zac and Abbey had the capabilities, it's still a dumb idea just because you want them to set a record. And it's coming across to me like Zac is skilled in a lot of things IN SPITE of his dad. Lawrence is so arrogant it's ridiculous-last episode getting lost even though he 'knew' how to plot a course on water, and this week brushing off Zac's wish to study the spirit house before moving it and then grumping that he'd have been able to do it without any problems. Not likely pal-you barely glanced at it. I wish we could see Zac without his dad.

    fan999-in the last episode the twins didn't change money at the airport when they landed in the country, and were having trouble travelling without local currency. Clearly this episode teams were able to pay in American cash and get by, but I would guess that the reason why they were completely broke is because they (unlike Ernie and Cindy) WERE overpaying because they felt bad about not having local money. Again, just a guess but we'll never know without a post-race interview.
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  2. #32
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    I agree with those who didn't find the snowboarders particularly offensive. It's their belief that the God they worship is the one true God. So what? If a Buddhist person told me to my face that Jesus wasn't a redeemer and was just a prophet, I wouldn't be offended, same for anyone else. It's their opinion, and don't they have a right to have it? And since that is the what Buddhists actually believe, it would be strange to me if they held back expressing it. (Concerned about offending me. I know what they believe, they know what I believe so why is a social faux pas to express it?) Sad world where freedom of speech means you can't say what your religion means to you, simply because it's contrary to what someone else believes.
    Are we really that wound that tight?

    Anyway, it was nice to see Bill and Cathi get a finish they deserved because this leg everyone couldn't help each other and leave the old couple out of it. I'm hoping future legs are similar.

    I'm fed up with Zac's dad, and thought if ANYone was offensive this leg it was Ernie and Cindy. He was so offensive yelling at that cab driver who was just trying to get paid his fare! (The same fare everyone else was being charged)

    The twins rocked. From refusing to beg outright to enjoying the tasks to their fullest, they showed what I believe the race is all about! I was sad to see them go.
    Last edited by spockwhat; 10-24-2011 at 07:11 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    I too was a little confused on how the twins ran out of money... if anyone finds out the reason, please let us know.
    It was nice to see that 2 cab drivers helped the twins out... if they had just walked... it would have taken them forever.

    I too thought it was nice to see Bill & Cathi's reaction to coming in second... they seemed to be genuinely happy for the winning team.
    Yes, it is a competition, but it's great to see good sportsmanship.

  4. #34
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by spockwhat View Post
    I agree with those who didn't find the snowboarders particularly offensive. It's their belief that the God they worship is the one true God. So what? If a Buddhist person told me to my face that Jesus wasn't a redeemer and was just a prophet, I wouldn't be offended, same for anyone else. It's their opinion, and don't they have a right to have it? And since that is the what Buddhists actually believe, it would be strange to me if they held back expressing it. (Concerned about offending me. I know what they believe, they know what I believe so why is a social faux pas to express it?) Sad world where freedom of speech means you can't say what your religion means to you, simply because it's contrary to what someone else believes.
    Are we really that wound that tight?

    Anyway, it was nice to see Bill and Cathi get a finish they deserved because this leg everyone couldn't help each other and leave the old couple out of it. I'm hoping future legs are similar.

    I'm fed up with Zac's dad, and thought if ANYone was offensive this leg it was Ernie and Cindy. He was so offensive yelling at that cab driver who was just trying to get paid his fare! (The same fare everyone else was being charged)

    The twins rocked. From refusing to beg outright to enjoying the tasks to their fullest, they showed what I believe the race is all about! I was sad to see them go.
    In my opinion, simply expressing ones beliefs is NOT intolerant. I also didn't see any crankiness in them doing the task. They were just making the observation that in doing the task it in no way impacted their beliefs. I don't mind people expressing their beliefs whether I believe the same or not. However, it is only intolerant when there is a hotile vibe involved. Our society has a total skewed perception of what it really means to be tolerant of others. It doesn't mean that we can't have and express a totally different view and feel strongly about it. It means that we allow others to express and hold to their views even when, to our way of thinking, they are wrong. It doesn't even mean that we can't try to persuade them that their views are not right. Shoot, I have good friends who have been on the receiving end of "You have the right to be wrong" on several occasions. That is one of my favorite lines when discussing issues with folks that I know don't share my views of any given subject. I never say it in anger, almost always with a smile to remove the sting, and only when I know that we are at an impasse.

    Anyway, jeers to Cindy and Ernie. I was so not impressed tonight. Jeers also to Zac's Dad. I wish they could have switched places to that he would have been able to show us how much better he would have done....NOT.

    I love that Marcus and wife acknowledge that a foot race with Bill and Cathi would be an easy thing. I love Bill and Cathi and am so glad to see an older couple actually be in good enough shape to be taken really seriously in the physical challenges.

    Loved, loved, loved how the twins chose to approach this leg of the race!

  5. #35
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyAKite View Post
    ... The brother and sister team just hit the mat and they were disappointed that they were team 4 ?? The said they wanted to come in 1st. . . yea, right !
    I really can't stand them.
    To return evil for good is devilish; to return good for good is human; to return good for evil is Divine - Alistair Begg

  6. #36
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    About the snowboarders comments...I agree, it seemed more annoying when followed immediately by the sister's comments about respecting other religions when there, as she would appreciate respect in her own church. I happen to think all religions are true and valid to the people who believe in them, so I did cringe when the one (still can't remember their names!) said theirs was the one TRUE religion and reminded me to read the bible because that's what it tells us. It felt like preaching, which I dislike, particularly on my reality shows. I believe they have a right to think any way they choose, but I do think this 'we're right, you're wrong' perception of religion causes more division and separation than is necessary in this world. Having said all that, though, I thought they had fun as usual on the elephant task but wanted to slap them silly for handing over their clue and letting some stranger walk away with it!! That could have cost them the race. Hopefully they have learned from it.

    The twins had such a great time, it was sad to see them go. Boy, they sure do love elephants though, don't they!

    And the dad Lawrence, what a pill he is. Never his fault, is it??

    Our pvr cut off the preview...what's up for next week??

  7. #37
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Since we've had other contestants in other shows tell us to read the Bible, and we've had plenty of controversial contestants in their stances, I stil l maintain that the snowboarders' comments are more their opinion than anything. Plus, we have to factor in editing and the like.

    BTW, I have to say one more thing - not too fond of the twins after the previous week, but they warmed to me after showing so much enthusiasm having to clean up poop and wash an elephant. I've NEVER seen a reality show group be SO HAPPY to clean up manure.
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  8. #38
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Since I'm the one who inadvertently started the religious debate, I went back and checked to see exactly what the Snowboarders said. Here it is:

    Tommy, who was doing the task and a few feet away from the woman who was the judge: Andy and I both are Christians, and it's been interesting with the Buddhist temples and these tasks, but, you know, God is definitely greater than a temple.

    Andy, to the camera, further away from the woman but still on the temple grounds: I don't feel, like, any weird vibes coming here, but we know the one true God, and it's pretty straight forward when you read the Bible.

    For the record, prior to those comments, I specifically complimented the snowboarders on not behaving like the Christian stereotypes that are far too frequently fodder for reality television. Also for the record, I never said I now didn't like them anymore--I said I liked them less for the comments they made. Here's why: They are guests in another country and in a space another religion considers sacred. It does not seem to me to be the time to announce that a)their God is greater than the other religion's temple (I would imagine most religions consider their deities to be greater than the space in which they worship those deities, so the Buddhists might well agree with that) and b)that it's pretty straight forward that their God is the one true God if you just read the book that outlines their religion (first, there are a variety of versions of the Bible; second, virtually any religion's main religious text is going to declare its God or gods to be the only true one or ones, so that's not much of an argument). My guess is that the snowboarders might not be terribly cool with a Buddhist deciding to proclaim why Christianity doesn't worship the right gods while standing at the communion rail watching others take communion either, nor should they be. Jennifer's comment seemed more appropriate, because she expressed that she didn't share their beliefs but that she felt the need to be respectful because she would want others to be respectful of her sacred spaces.

    Unfortunately, I've seen some pretty horrendous behavior by both American and non-Americans in places of worship that are also historically or culturally important and thus also tourist attractions (e.g. tourists in a Quebec Catholic church standing at the pulpit pretending to give a sermon and throwing their arms around statues of saints and mugging, while their friends giggled and took photographs in full view of the nuns who were in charge of the place). I think it's far better to be quiet and respectful and not announce your differing religious views at exactly that point. For that matter, if you don't know the laws in a specific country, it's better to keep your mouth shut about a lot of things, since there isn't freedom of speech everywhere.

    As for freedom of speech, I completely believe in the First Amendment, which also guarantees freedom of religion. So, yes, the Snowboarders, in America, at least, have a right to voice whatever religious opinions they want, but I also have the right to be taken aback at where and how they might be voicing them. And yes, I am a Christian--specifically a Lutheran--but I know a great many people who aren't, and I do not feel compelled to tell them their beliefs are wrong, especially not at their places of worship. There is a time and a place for open, respectful religious debate, but I don't think that's it. Furthermore, as a Christian, I find it distressing that Christians are so often portrayed on television as people who feel the need to point out that they are right and everyone else is wrong and treat the Bible as a simplistic text with exactly one interpretation or edition: theirs. I also like what Thomas Paine had to say about tolerance. Paine said that tolerance is not the the opposite of intolerance, it's the counterfeit of it, because it implies that the person being tolerant isn't so much being respectful of someone else's views as condescending about them, since he/she is merely saying he/she is putting up with the existence of someone else's views as opposed to understanding that they might have some validity or importance to the person holding them.

    Paine, of course, was run out of the country for publishing "The Rights of Man," which flew in the face of some of the time's established religious practices, despite having published "Common Sense" and having been considered the voice of the American Revolution.
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  9. #39
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by jadewarlock
    Since we've had other contestants in other shows tell us to read the Bible, and we've had plenty of controversial contestants in their stances, I stil l maintain that the snowboarders' comments are more their opinion than anything. Plus, we have to factor in editing and the like.
    I agree, but following sweetpea's comment, I think I'm going to take a look at it again, to see if I can get a true sense of their attitude and how they said it. I'll concede that there is a difference between telling people very honestly what you believe (which is not only fine by me, but refreshing to hear) and condemnation. Condemning others for their beliefs is... kind of rude. If the snowboarders crossed that line, I can understand why they made people uncomfortable a bit. Maybe not to a huge extent, but a bit.
    But you're right, editing can also be a nasty wench, but then we get into speculation anyway.

    There is something about this entire conversation... I keep thinking of Puddy.
    BTW, I have to say one more thing - not too fond of the twins after the previous week, but they warmed to me after showing so much enthusiasm having to clean up poop and wash an elephant. I've NEVER seen a reality show group be SO HAPPY to clean up manure.
    They were positively GIDDY. It was pretty funny.

  10. #40
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    Re: 10/23 TAR 19 Episode 5 **West Coast Spoilers**

    The boarders sure do feel compeled to let us know that they are straight and Christian. Insecure, much, dudes??
    Trust Me!

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