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Thread: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #61
    FORT Fan everly2's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I miss the cowboys already! I really loved how they competed. To me, they always treated everyone with respect, and they honestly competed. They didn't whine, and pitch fits, they just worked really hard at it. The real test of their merit was how they treated each other...perfect harmony, real brotherly love/respect. A joy to watch.

    Unfair cheating should be penalized, answer sharers on both sides should at least get a 30 minute penalty, but really should have to repeat the challenge, I completely support this viewpoint, and I hope CBS takes note of all the objections to what went on.
    The AR has lost in this showing.

    The GTs used to be my second favorite team, but they have dishonored themselves in my opinion. Kinda like a basketball team that wins 100 points to zero...not a necessary put down, an overkill!
    Last edited by everly2; 04-25-2011 at 09:33 AM. Reason: added to note

  2. #62
    FORT Regular ahecht's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Did anyone else find Phil's phrasing awkward at the end? He couldn't bring himself to say that the cowboys had been eliminated:

    "I'm sorry to tell you that you are the last team to arrive and are out of this race"

    I'm also surprised that this is only the second time that they've played the Cowboy's theme song.

  3. #63
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    It's funny how a couple of weeks ago people were upset at Kent for promising to help Gary and then leaving him. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Again, it's the drama producers are looking for. Who to help, when, why, and when will it come back to bite you in the butt? I hate that the cowboys went out that way, but the other teams didn't break any of the current rules. I feel bad for the cowboys, but I'm still really enjoying this season so far. It hasn't been perfect, but it's been pretty darn good. I doubt there would have been so much fan fallout if a less popular team had gone out that way. I don't think it's odd that people should be upset at Kent for promising to help Gary and then not following through and still be angry at the idea of answer sharing. It's one thing to agree to work together on a task, which is what Kent and Gary had done. Kent knew where the last guy was and Gary knew where some of the others were, but neither of them knew what the final answer was or where every one of the wise men were. You had to find all of them and then collect all the sheets of paper and then put the clue together afterwards. For that matter, I'm not sure working together that way necessarily would have helped them, since they were both going together to try to find the wise men they still hadn't found. If they'd wandered too far afield, as Ron did, they might still have taken just as long as someone working on his/her own. Just giving someone an answer allows him/her to essentially skip a huge portion of the task altogether and gives that person a huge advantage over people who are completing the task according to the rules. What Ken and Gary were doing was more akin to teams agreeing to travel together, so to speak, if they believe one has a better set of directions, which does not always work to their advantage (e.g. so many people following Ron/Christina in China, because they thought their language skills gave them an advantage--they still got lost). Getting the right answer without having to do the full task is clearly always going to be to the person's advantage.

    As for that kind of collusion adding to the drama of the race, I think the race has inherent drama as it is. You never know who's going to do well on a task (nor do they, since they don't know what the tasks are ahead of time), you never know who's going to have cab trouble, you never know who's going to get lost etc. There are enough variables as it is without collusion taking place. Sometimes really strong teams have been done in by factors way beyond their control. Plus, they do enforce rules for things like missing a required flight or not following the rules for a task or leaving behind a bag. If they're going to have a game with rules, I think a pretty obvious rule is that everyone should have to complete all portions of the tasks on their own or face a penalty. In their last time out, the GTs ended up losing because they decided to skip a puzzle they couldn't solve and take the penalty--and they're certainly a strong, competitive team. Twice this race, they've just been handed an answer they might not have gotten so easily on their own. If the other teams that were given the answer hadn't been, the outcome of the leg might have been the same or it might have been very different. Maybe the GTs or any of the others would have gone home instead of the Cowboys, who, while popular, are not the only popular teams on the race. And as I've said repeatedly, it wouldn't have mattered to me if they'd chosen another team against which to collude. It would still have bothered me that some teams decided to band together to cheat in order to keep another team from advancing. If they don't change the rules to support the very basic idea that teams must complete all aspects of a challenge on their own, then what's the point of having any rules at all? This leg, it was like the majority of the teams were all given a fast forward for one task that might have been quite challenging, which is aggravating. Part of the enjoyment of watching the race is watching people figure things out. Being handed an answer isn't exactly riveting viewing. It's also maddening in that it would have been so easy to prevent cheating on the task--all they had to do was have the riders have to show their odometers to the guy at the checkpoint. If an odometer didn't read 22, then obviously that rider hadn't done the task correctly and could be sent back to do it over.

    I also agree that it would have been much fairer if the uturn hadn't been at the very last point of the race. There was no way anyone was likely to be able to make up the time at that point, and the Cowboys were incredibly good sports to go back and eat all that fondue, when they knew it was highly unlikely that they'd have two NEL in a row. Since the show knew it wasn't a NEL, someone should have stepped in and given them the option of not doing the task after the GTs got to the mat.

  4. #64
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItReal View Post
    That's also the reason I believe they allow the sharing of answers. It creates drama.

    *SNIP*

    I hate that the cowboys went out that way, but the other teams didn't break any of the current rules. I feel bad for the cowboys, but I'm still really enjoying this season so far. It hasn't been perfect, but it's been pretty darn good. I doubt there would have been so much fan fallout if a less popular team had gone out that way.
    I would've felt that way except for the Goths, but only because I feel like others that they should've been disqualified for not taking a mandatory flight. Nancy and Emily got a 24 hour penalty not doing a challenge properly first season.

    That said, there is sharing answers and then there's not doing the challenge properly. Let's face it, there were four teams at least who should've had to do the challenge again - Cowboys (who did), Kisha/Jen (who were just over plus she didn't have her map), GT's (who were about as many miles off as the cowboys), and the Goths (who were I think slightly off, but not much).

    This is why I think they erred by not having them SHOW the odometer. By not doing that, it actually caused a potential COUNTER cheating. What is not to say that some of these contestants could've tried to take a short cut and take a wild guess? (Yes, far fetched, but if you knew the first team would do it right, what makes you think they wouldn't try?)

    I do agree they followed the rules this go, but I would fully expect that the next season they are not going to allow sharing of answers in challenges like this one where they must drive somewhere and give an answer.

    Note, I am NOT saying the cowboys would've still been in the race. That said, it should've been four teams going through it twice - G/M, J/C and J/Z did it right).

  5. #65
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ahecht View Post
    Did anyone else find Phil's phrasing awkward at the end? He couldn't bring himself to say that the cowboys had been eliminated:

    "I'm sorry to tell you that you are the last team to arrive and are out of this race"

    I'm also surprised that this is only the second time that they've played the Cowboy's theme song.
    It was - I really would like to read Phil's take on this one. I don't think he liked where the U-ey was (it honestly should've been at the actual detour stop), and I don't think he liked how three teams at least didn't do the challenge properly, but production opened the door for this to happen.

    Also, with the elimination of the cowboys, we now have NO team who has been in the final three in their season. K/J and G/M I think were in the final four, I do not know about K/V (though it was further back), Z/J were close to the beginning (they've already far exceeded their original spot), and the G/T's were I think sixth. That has to hurt some, as all three second place teams in their first run are out and none will get the brass ring. Ron/Christina, the cowboys, Jamie and Cara were all second place in their first go - all relatively popular their seasons - and in the case of the cowboys (from some viewer's opinion, not all), their rightful win after being "cheated" in their original leg. (BTW, this is going from a viewpoint of general public/production - not necessarily personal).

  6. #66
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by tarfan77 View Post
    I wouldn't call it unduly, for two reasons:

    (1) Aside from the fact that they aren't very big, the Cowboys are arguably the most athletic team ever to compete on the Race.

    (2) Christina(?) noted their extreme efficiency in getting physical tasks done. Yeah, intellectual challenges seemed to be their undoing (in both races), but physically they were nearly untouchable. As a matter of fact, I'm not even convinced that the GTs would beat the Cowboys in a foot race.
    Yes, they're athletic, and they're efficient. They also generally aren't at their best at tasks that involve puzzles of any sort, and they'd gotten lost a lot. Yes, they finished first a couple of times, but they've also been last or close to last any number of times. Other teams--J/Z--have finished first more often and won significant prizes as a result, but no one seemed nearly as worried about them being a threat. Other teams are clearly good at physical tasks (e.g. the GTs) but no one was trying to collude together to eliminate them. No one even suggested it. But now that that kind of tactic got rid of the Cowboys, I can see someone easily suggesting using it again, and the whole thing will turn into a traveling Survivor, even though AR supposedly has rules.

    And given the obvious difference in the length of their strides and the fact that the Globetrotters aren't exactly slow themselves, I think it's quite likely they could beat them in a footrace. Rodeo doesn't require all that much running. Basketball certainly does.

    What saved the Cowboys in earlier legs, more than anything else, I think, is that they didn't waste a lot of time or energy arguing. If they got behind, they just tried to work harder and more efficiently. I also think that's why a lot of people liked them better than teams that fight with each other. It's just not all that much fun to watch people scream at each other or complain endlessly about how hard a task is instead of just trying to complete it as quickly as possible. The fact that the Cowboys are physically adept certainly helped, but even when they got stuck on a puzzle, as they did in an early leg, they didn't give up and they didn't start blaming each other. Nor were they just handed an answer by another team when they couldn't get it on their own.

  7. #67
    Forum Assistant sweetpea's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Very sad to see the Cowboys leave that way, but I loved the "tribute music" over the ending credits! It was a funny season for them. They were often out on their own through choice of a different flight, choosing a different means of transportation, but also sometimes because they got lost or had trouble. They had an uncanny ability to stay calm and catch back up though, and that's why the other teams universally wanted to get them out. I didn't like the 'cheating' part - felt like the physical part of the 22 km, actually driving it, should have been a part of the challenge. What was to stop someone from asking somebody on the street to help them figure out the answer? And for that matter, why couldn't a team just have gone around the corner, come back, and guessed another answer repeatedly? Either it is go back and do it again, or it is ok to just throw an answer at the guy and hope it's right, but it seems as if the task itself was flawed. Didn't like that the others shared the answer, but I guess I understand why they did.

    Still love the Globetrotters. They seemed genuinely sad that they U-turned the Cowboys at the end, but I did agree at that point they had little choice since nobody ahead of them had u-turned anyone. If they didn't, they might have gone home.

    Kent is a whiny little child. The sight of Vixyn pushing him in the cart was pathetic. His voice irritates the heck out of me too. ARGH, why couldn't it have been them eliminated??

    I still really like Zev and Justin. They were making me giggle all through the cheese eating task, especially Zev's face. Someone should cap that for an avatar. Too funny.

    My ideal F3 at this point is Zev/Justin, The Globetrotters, and Gary/Mallory. At that point, I'd be happy with whoever won. It was lovely to once again see Gary and Mallory truly enjoying the race and the country they were in. Loved how they didn't want to sleep because they might miss something beautiful as they were going by.

  8. #68
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    This wasn't the first episode with the sharing of answers, so I don't get why y'all are bent out of shape about it now. The cowboys themselves admitted that they hadn't had much interaction with the other teams -- that was their downfall. I don't mind at all that they are gone.
    Trust Me!

  9. #69
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetpea View Post
    Still love the Globetrotters. They seemed genuinely sad that they U-turned the Cowboys at the end, but I did agree at that point they had little choice since nobody ahead of them had u-turned anyone. If they didn't, they might have gone home.
    Yes, I do respect the GT's reasoning behind this. While they had a huge advantage with the other teams giving them the answer, there is also the chance, given how quickly the cowboys caught up, that it could've been for naught. This is especially true in the fact that Nathan lost two of the baggage tickets and they had to do it again.

    And, they showed respect for the cowboy's gameplay by U-turning them. To me this was respect, and I think even the cowboys knew that.

    Kent is a whiny little child. The sight of Vixyn pushing him in the cart was pathetic. His voice irritates the heck out of me too. ARGH, why couldn't it have been them eliminated??
    Because I think they leeched off Jet/Cord's luck.

    But seriously, they should've been out some time ago by not taking the proper flight, but that's the way the game is played. I think it is a good wake-up call for production however on the rules of the game.

    I still really like Zev and Justin. They were making me giggle all through the cheese eating task, especially Zev's face. Someone should cap that for an avatar. Too funny.
    So do I - and they've done tremendously well this season. They may not win, but I would love to see them in the final three. They sure have earned it.

    And yes, Zev's faces on the cheese eating task were funny. What I also liked was how he plowed through it while poor Justin had trouble, and even more so how BOTH kept encouraging the other to not give up.

    My ideal F3 at this point is Zev/Justin, The Globetrotters, and Gary/Mallory. At that point, I'd be happy with whoever won. It was lovely to once again see Gary and Mallory truly enjoying the race and the country they were in. Loved how they didn't want to sleep because they might miss something beautiful as they were going by.
    This is my ideal three as well, but I will not be too upset if Kisha/Jen sneak in. They've played a mostly clean game. I will be upset if the Goths make it.

  10. #70
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 4/24 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Newsboi View Post
    This wasn't the first episode with the sharing of answers, so I don't get why y'all are bent out of shape about it now. The cowboys themselves admitted that they hadn't had much interaction with the other teams -- that was their downfall. I don't mind at all that they are gone.
    The difference here is that they had to drive the distance, and at least two of them WOULD'VE had to do it again if they weren't given the answer because they were lost (Globetrotters, K/J). Had they done the odometer reading - which is something that surprised me from the get-go, we'd had a fairer challenge.

    BTW - I'd be saying this if it were any other team in the race. The challenge opened itself up to this type of sharing and it wasn't fair at all because a team could've driven 50 or so KM and still been given the right answer and gotten a pass. It allowed for people to be lost and still gain an advantage, and that really wasn't fair.

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