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Thread: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

  1. #221
    FORT Fogey KeepItReal's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    I think the racing to get to the clue goes back to the tasks in past seasons where you would get a number, and that meant you left on a first boat, or a first plane, during a specific task. I can't remember everything about every season, but we spoke a little upthread about this, and during those sorts of tasks you would want that first clue. It's been a few seasons, however, since we saw those sorts of tasks.

    As for the many replays of the incident, I still see that as giving us many clear views of the situation rather than any sort of manipulation. It's like when the umpires are debating if a ball is fair or foul. We'll see a thousand replays and still sometimes it's too close to call. It's all a matter of trying to give a clearer view of things, that just my opinion of why they replayed it more than they usually do.

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    FORT Fan Ionan's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Maveno;3421829;
    Yea, I don't agree with you.

    When did the sisters scream at Margie 'n Luke?? Especially about understanding "discrimination".. Mom 'n son were WAYY overreacting.
    It's a race.

    We see two different sunsets. That's Oh Kay.
    Uh, duh, ditto.

    And the sisters don't have to scream at a team to be guilty of provocation. M&L weren't the only one's overreacting either. I don't remember them complaining about getting wrong directions for their taxi from other teams throughout two whole episodes and vowing revenge/payback. Jen/Kisha are really bad sports, just like Luke.

    We see the same sunset, just from different angles 'cuz there's only one sun

  3. #223
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by foodallergyquee;3421578;
    Keep in mind that Luke can not hear people running up from behind him, so when she fell into him, he probably wasn't 100% sure what the heck was going on and instinct took over and he protected his space.
    Man. If this happened to me, I would have hit Jen. Not from meanness or aggression but from surprise and and unexpected physicality.

  4. #224
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by justCoz;3419878;
    It's amazing to me how we can all watch something and come up with such different views. With so many people saying that the first time Jen pushed Luke is what I am disagreeing with. That wasn't what I remembered, and I had rewound it several times that night. I went back and rewound it again this morning. This is what I saw. At the first clue box they were both running for the box at the same time, Luke got there first, but Jen was on the move. She didn't push Luke, she put her hand on his back and tried to move around him to the left, as he was on the right side of the box. He moved to his left (that may or may not have been a blocking move, hard to tell, may have been because she touched his right side and since he's deaf he automatically moved to the left- I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.) But then...he threw a hip and an elbow. That was definitely uncalled for. She wasn't pushing him, she was trying to get around him, as we've seen other times on TAR when people arrive at the clue box at the same time. IMO they both had forward motion going for the box. She said they spotted the box at the same time. We see Luke and Margie running for it and Jen and Kisha aren't visible, but when do see her she's running to the box but it's not from the same direction, she's not coming from the left side like M&L, she's coming from behind on the right. It's hard to tell where she was originally since they're not in the frame at all. We do see where she ends up after she arrives at the clue box. I think she accidentally ran into to him, but I don't think his reaction of his hip thrust and then the elbow were accidental. The hip action is much more obvious on slow-mo, and looks much more deliberate. Jen called him a b*tch because she said it was a b*tch move. In a weird way I think she actually treats him less like he has a disability here than not.

    I had been thinking that the 2nd box incident was purely accidental, but in researching it this morning I watched this one again and also in slow-mo. They are both running for the box, Jen is slightly ahead of Luke, he is running also, very closely, and he tries to get in front of her and actually reaches his hand in front of her to try to edge his way in, not by just running. This is before they reach the box, when they are just running towards it. He initiates the physical contact on this one before they reach the box. Jen arrives first to the box. I do think at this point he wasn't trying to mow her down, any more than she tried to at the first clue box. He kind of steps back for a few seconds and then not waiting for her to get her clue out then approaches again, reaching for the clue box. Jen does the same thing to him that he did to her, blocks him with an elbow, and then she does push his arm away.

    It's not the first time we've seen people running into each other that the boxes in TAR. IMO it escalated for a few reasons. First reason is because the sisters felt that M&L gave false info to their cab driver in the last leg. Second reason is because when Jen accidentally ran into Luke at the first box he threw an elbow and a hip. It was aggressive behavior and she knew it and called it like she saw it. At the 2nd box Jen had both of those incidents still fresh on her mind and then returned the blocking moves to Luke. He did try to prevent her from getting her clue at the first box, so she returned the favor. Jen is a competitor and I think she had decided that if Luke was going to play it that way so was she. He's very competive too, and so is Margie, she is telling to go fast when they are running towards the 2nd box. He has a look of determination on his face that shows he wants to be at the box first. That look is on his face when he's trying to reach around Jen as they are running.

    Then he tells his mommy that Jen pushed his arm. I believe I've said it before and I'll say it again that I don't believe Margie is doing Luke any favors by babying him. He's 22, time to grow up. He reacted like a grade schooler telling on Jen, after he did the same thing to her previously. If he wants to play aggressively then he shouldn't be surprised when someone plays that way back. He dished it out and now needs to take it. Again, I think Jen actually treated him this way with a complete disregard for his disability. She acted competitively to his competitivism. IMO Margie would do well to let more people treat him like he doesn't have a disability than that he does.

    I don't have tons of experience with a lot of deaf people, but one I do know really well. It was my ex-boyfriend's father. His dad held a regular job at a factory (in a town full of factories and most definitely a regular job there). He has a regular house, regular kids, regular average life. He just happens to be deaf. He's one of the sweetest men I have ever met in my life. No one in his life treated him like Margie does Luke, not his mother, not his sisters, not his wife or kids. People treated him like he was normal because he was. Other than some slight communication problems now and then and not being able to talk on the phone and needing closed captioning everything he did was normal. Yet he's profoundly deaf. All that to say: there is no reason at all that Luke couldn't have that same thing happen to him. Margie needs to quit babying him, and help him to grow up. It's obvious that she's protective. That's not a bad thing, but she's overprotective and that is a bad thing. Especially at his age.

    I do understand it. It's the same reason I had a hard time going to my daughter's gymnastics classes, martial arts classes, etc. When they are trying and they are so little and the teacher tells them it's wrong or gets onto them it's hard not to step in. I had to step back and let them be teachers. Truthfully I couldn't really watch practices because I turn into a stage mom. I would imagine that it's doubly hard for Margie because of Luke's deafness. But it's necessary. Just like I had to learn to step back, she needs to as well. She's not really helping him be all the man he could be. It's not easy as a parent to do that, but for our kids to suceed in life it's what must happen.

    Which is not to say that Jen acted perfectly, I don't really mean that. But even Phil tried to calm Margie down and defended the sisters actions. They weren't laughing at his deafness. Why they were laughing is up for speculation. It could be part of their stragedy as they talked about. It could be a defense mechanism, that's what I would have done in a tense situation like that. Hopefully they can all learn from this, but I doubt we've seen the last of it. Most of all I hope Margie learns to let her son grow up, and stops treating him like a baby.
    Amen!

  5. #225
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by foodallergyquee;3421578;
    Keep in mind that Luke can not hear people running up from behind him, so when she fell into him, he probably wasn't 100% sure what the heck was going on and instinct took over and he protected his space.
    In the first clue box time, jen used her hands to kind of touch luke. So luke is 100% knew that jen was behind him. And still, he elbowed jen.

    In the second clue box time, luke was running from behind so he knew that jen was in front of him.

  6. #226
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by kamkam08;3422483;
    In the first clue box time, jen used her hands to kind of touch luke. So luke is 100% knew that jen was behind him. And still, he elbowed jen.

    In the second clue box time, luke was running from behind so he knew that jen was in front of him.

    Touch is a very kind description. It was more than a touch. They were both running hard for the box. It is highly unlikely that a mere "touch" would happen even if that was all that was intended.

    However, this whole discussion is so over done at this point, but I can't help but point out that perception is most definitely affected by the way one feels about those involved, and that is so clearly the case in this discussion that it is beyond obvious.

  7. #227
    FORT Fogey Tigerusty's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by NCLurker;3422505;
    Touch is a very kind description. It was more than a touch. They were both running hard for the box. It is highly unlikely that a mere "touch" would happen even if that was all that was intended.

    However, this whole discussion is so over done at this point, but I can't help but point out that perception is most definitely affected by the way one feels about those involved, and that is so clearly the case in this discussion that it is beyond obvious.
    I agree with you is most instances bias does affect how people see things but with me I don't have an affection for either one of the teams so my conclusion was totally drawn by the replay. At first when I heard her call him that I thought it was uncalled for but the replay totally convinced me that she was correct in her response to say the least.
    "So, what is fame? It's lightening that strikes some people. It's lightening that some people seek." Jewel

  8. #228
    Tivoaholic Tivoer's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by NCLurker;3422505;
    However, this whole discussion is so over done at this point, but I can't help but point out that perception is most definitely affected by the way one feels about those involved, and that is so clearly the case in this discussion that it is beyond obvious.
    Exactly. Everyone by now either has a favorite team, or doesn't like one or the other teams involved, so their viewpoints are tainted.

    If this were a sport, I think both incidents would be either too close to call, or simply a racing incident. Camp A isn't going to convince Camp B and Camp B isn't going to convince Camp A. Therefore, it becomes an issue of being right, and I don't really think it matters anymore. Let's put the ego's aside and enjoy the show again. After all...it really is just entertainment.

  9. #229
    FORT Fogey captain's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    I think this is the most divided during any TAR that we have been here. At least this season is giving us something to cuss and discuss.
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  10. #230
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Actually, I've been rooting for Margie and Luke pretty much since day one but I felt they were the team that overreacted. The sisters were really in the back of the pack most of the race and were just another team to me. One I did not think would make it very far.

    I was talking to two of my sisters last night, also fans of the show. Both said the same thing.....which I don't think I have seen discussed here.....and it is this: If either team was seen as acting out in an unsportsmanlike way, wouldn't they have been penalized by the show?

    (I told them if the brothers had been involved, we know they would have incurred a penalty as they have been penalized so much! LOL)

    I just think that, at this point in the race, the teams are exhausted and running on empty. The sisters felt slighted by what had happened in the leg before this one. Margie couldn't get past them calling Luke a bitch. Luke was upset and then getting bit in the fishing challenge added to his bad day.

    Everyone needs to just calm down and cool their heads during the 12-hour respite before the start of the next leg.

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