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Thread: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

  1. #201
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    I am rooting for Jen & Lekisha because they seemed to have always been behind this whole race, and run into different problems here and there that they've overcome. They got college educations and through athletics are competitive, and I see some of their tactics as very driven and their athletic background, not necessarily trash talking, but strategizing and finding some small psychological way to get a little advantage (a little psychological offense can be the best defense), is what has kept them in the game (along with a little luck).

    Margie and Luke I rooted for in the beginning, but they were at the front of the pack so much that I saw them kind of grow accustomed that that was their place, and now that the race is down to 4 (and the past few episodes) they are getting really tense with the competition. And some of the behavior seemed to me to be some entitlement? (I could just be more sensitive with this, I work at a University and there is a difference between those who've had to work for everything in life and those who have been hand-held, and I see Luke in the latter category and the sisters in the former).

    I thought it was great that the sisters got to the mat first - both other teams had multiple wins and prizes. I am all for any of the 3 winning, but agree with the former poster, Cara & Jamie, I don't want a team to win who has a member so negative and abusive to the locals!

  2. #202
    FORT Fogey justCoz's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    It's amazing to me how we can all watch something and come up with such different views. With so many people saying that the first time Jen pushed Luke is what I am disagreeing with. That wasn't what I remembered, and I had rewound it several times that night. I went back and rewound it again this morning. This is what I saw. At the first clue box they were both running for the box at the same time, Luke got there first, but Jen was on the move. She didn't push Luke, she put her hand on his back and tried to move around him to the left, as he was on the right side of the box. He moved to his left (that may or may not have been a blocking move, hard to tell, may have been because she touched his right side and since he's deaf he automatically moved to the left- I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.) But then...he threw a hip and an elbow. That was definitely uncalled for. She wasn't pushing him, she was trying to get around him, as we've seen other times on TAR when people arrive at the clue box at the same time. IMO they both had forward motion going for the box. She said they spotted the box at the same time. We see Luke and Margie running for it and Jen and Kisha aren't visible, but when do see her she's running to the box but it's not from the same direction, she's not coming from the left side like M&L, she's coming from behind on the right. It's hard to tell where she was originally since they're not in the frame at all. We do see where she ends up after she arrives at the clue box. I think she accidentally ran into to him, but I don't think his reaction of his hip thrust and then the elbow were accidental. The hip action is much more obvious on slow-mo, and looks much more deliberate. Jen called him a b*tch because she said it was a b*tch move. In a weird way I think she actually treats him less like he has a disability here than not.

    I had been thinking that the 2nd box incident was purely accidental, but in researching it this morning I watched this one again and also in slow-mo. They are both running for the box, Jen is slightly ahead of Luke, he is running also, very closely, and he tries to get in front of her and actually reaches his hand in front of her to try to edge his way in, not by just running. This is before they reach the box, when they are just running towards it. He initiates the physical contact on this one before they reach the box. Jen arrives first to the box. I do think at this point he wasn't trying to mow her down, any more than she tried to at the first clue box. He kind of steps back for a few seconds and then not waiting for her to get her clue out then approaches again, reaching for the clue box. Jen does the same thing to him that he did to her, blocks him with an elbow, and then she does push his arm away.

    It's not the first time we've seen people running into each other that the boxes in TAR. IMO it escalated for a few reasons. First reason is because the sisters felt that M&L gave false info to their cab driver in the last leg. Second reason is because when Jen accidentally ran into Luke at the first box he threw an elbow and a hip. It was aggressive behavior and she knew it and called it like she saw it. At the 2nd box Jen had both of those incidents still fresh on her mind and then returned the blocking moves to Luke. He did try to prevent her from getting her clue at the first box, so she returned the favor. Jen is a competitor and I think she had decided that if Luke was going to play it that way so was she. He's very competive too, and so is Margie, she is telling to go fast when they are running towards the 2nd box. He has a look of determination on his face that shows he wants to be at the box first. That look is on his face when he's trying to reach around Jen as they are running.

    Then he tells his mommy that Jen pushed his arm. I believe I've said it before and I'll say it again that I don't believe Margie is doing Luke any favors by babying him. He's 22, time to grow up. He reacted like a grade schooler telling on Jen, after he did the same thing to her previously. If he wants to play aggressively then he shouldn't be surprised when someone plays that way back. He dished it out and now needs to take it. Again, I think Jen actually treated him this way with a complete disregard for his disability. She acted competitively to his competitivism. IMO Margie would do well to let more people treat him like he doesn't have a disability than that he does.

    I don't have tons of experience with a lot of deaf people, but one I do know really well. It was my ex-boyfriend's father. His dad held a regular job at a factory (in a town full of factories and most definitely a regular job there). He has a regular house, regular kids, regular average life. He just happens to be deaf. He's one of the sweetest men I have ever met in my life. No one in his life treated him like Margie does Luke, not his mother, not his sisters, not his wife or kids. People treated him like he was normal because he was. Other than some slight communication problems now and then and not being able to talk on the phone and needing closed captioning everything he did was normal. Yet he's profoundly deaf. All that to say: there is no reason at all that Luke couldn't have that same thing happen to him. Margie needs to quit babying him, and help him to grow up. It's obvious that she's protective. That's not a bad thing, but she's overprotective and that is a bad thing. Especially at his age.

    I do understand it. It's the same reason I had a hard time going to my daughter's gymnastics classes, martial arts classes, etc. When they are trying and they are so little and the teacher tells them it's wrong or gets onto them it's hard not to step in. I had to step back and let them be teachers. Truthfully I couldn't really watch practices because I turn into a stage mom. I would imagine that it's doubly hard for Margie because of Luke's deafness. But it's necessary. Just like I had to learn to step back, she needs to as well. She's not really helping him be all the man he could be. It's not easy as a parent to do that, but for our kids to suceed in life it's what must happen.

    Which is not to say that Jen acted perfectly, I don't really mean that. But even Phil tried to calm Margie down and defended the sisters actions. They weren't laughing at his deafness. Why they were laughing is up for speculation. It could be part of their stragedy as they talked about. It could be a defense mechanism, that's what I would have done in a tense situation like that. Hopefully they can all learn from this, but I doubt we've seen the last of it. Most of all I hope Margie learns to let her son grow up, and stops treating him like a baby.

  3. #203
    FORT Fan Ionan's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by justCoz;3419878;
    It's not the first time we've seen people running into each other that the boxes in TAR. IMO it escalated for a few reasons. First reason is because the sisters felt that M&L gave false info to their cab driver in the last leg. Second reason is because when Jen accidentally ran into Luke at the first box he threw an elbow and a hip. It was aggressive behavior and she knew it and called it like she saw it. At the 2nd box Jen had both of those incidents still fresh on her mind and then returned the blocking moves to Luke. He did try to prevent her from getting her clue at the first box, so she returned the favor. Jen is a competitor and I think she had decided that if Luke was going to play it that way so was she. He's very competive too, and so is Margie, she is telling to go fast when they are running towards the 2nd box. He has a look of determination on his face that shows he wants to be at the box first. That look is on his face when he's trying to reach around Jen as they are running.
    Jen did not accidentally run into Luke at the first cluebox, they were racing eachother and she was the aggressor here when she made a move to get in front of Luke and push him aside when he was clearly there first. I saw what Luke did there as a defensive move. If someone were to try and push their way in front of me, I would've thrown my arm up like that, too, for invading my personal space and trying to push me out of the way.

  4. #204
    Éirinn go Brách NJ EJ's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionan;3419954;
    Jen did not accidentally run into Luke at the first cluebox, they were racing eachother and she was the aggressor here when she made a move to get in front of Luke and push him aside when he was clearly there first. I saw what Luke did there as a defensive move. If someone were to try and push their way in front of me, I would've thrown my arm up like that, too, for invading my personal space and trying to push me out of the way.
    Is there anything left to say about the body checking/pushing/shoving/lack of civility? I'm tired of reading about it already. Am I the only one?

  5. #205
    FORT Fogey captain's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    If you go and read the recaps on TAR, it also states that Luke was the instigator in both situations.
    There's no place like home!

  6. #206
    FORT Fan Ionan's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    The recaps are only the perceptions of the people who wrote them, just like all of these posts.

  7. #207
    Éirinn go Brách NJ EJ's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ EJ;3419961;
    Is there anything left to say about the body checking/pushing/shoving/lack of civility? I'm tired of reading about it already. Am I the only one?
    Guess so.

  8. #208
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Newfherder;3418845;
    Luke came across as a whiny little bitch.

    The girls did as well.

    I have rewatched the moments involved in this whole thing and felt it was quite clear that, anyway you cut it, the girls (can't remember who is who) pushed into him and tried to reach over his shoulder instead of letting him clear. Yes, he did throw his elbow. Must say I might have done the same thing under the circumstances. However, regardless of who did what, they are each responsible for their own behavior. I totally can understand a mom getting upset for a son, however, I do think Margie contributed to things at the mat. As for the behavior of the two girls, they planned to laugh at Luke in order to get him more upset. That's just uncalled for. I clearly remember them talking about this very thing in the taxi. Give me a break.

    Sorry, NJ EJ, was late to the party and had posted before I saw your comment

  9. #209
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionan;3419968;
    The recaps are only the perceptions of the people who wrote them, just like all of these posts.
    Sorry, I meant the one on cbs.
    But it really does not matter any more, that leg of the race is over and both teams are still in the race.
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  10. #210
    Éirinn go Brách NJ EJ's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by NCLurker;3420007;
    Sorry, NJ EJ, was late to the party and had posted before I saw your comment[/B]
    No worries! I love reading this stuff, even though I think the whole who-did-what-to-whom-and-what-he/she-meant is getting tired. Doesn't mean I'm not reading the thread.

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