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Thread: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

  1. #171
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata;3418750;
    Jen and Keshia got exactly what they wanted. They knew that their smile and smirk strategy can make angry people even more so. They were probably thrilled that Margie went off on them because they got what they wanted. They made Margie lose control. They planned it, they executed it. Considering that both sisters have finished college, played college athletics and have more live experience then Luke they were in my eyes the "bitchy" ones and caused the blow up at the mat to escalate to way past where it needed to go. All throughout the episode they were demonizing Margie and Luke for being dirty players, and how they were going to get back at them. Well they did. For all the crowing both girls did about Luke's "poor sportsmanship" they certainly did not show any "good sportsmanship". They are total hypocrites.

    I so agree with you.
    If K/J are really that calm and good as they pretend, they should have not say something bad about M/L throughout the episode. All what I see is these two sisters take all the things personally and in the end they just show people how calm and good they are at the mat, without losing a bit of control, even Margie goes ballistic.

    Good show, i mean it whole-heartedly.

  2. #172
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by ducky2;3418869;
    Ill throw my two cents in here. While I thought they all acted immaturely, I fault Margie and Luke more for it escalating. In the first incident, I saw her moving in too quickly and bumping Luke - she shouldn't have reached over him, but he definitely shouldn't have thrown an elbow. The b comment was unneccessary, but IMO was kind of under her breath - and she did put her hand over her mouth, like "oops - I shouldn't have said that." Still she shouldn't have said it. In the second incident, I saw Luke accidentally barrel into her, and she was mad but maintained her composure, then he tried to grab, she put her arm out to block him and he overreacted to it. Later he told his mom that she "grabbed my arm and pushed me away" which was an exaggeration - at least I never saw her grab his arm.?

    I think both Margie and Luke fed off each other to continue the anger. I felt for him to be visibly angry at the mat before Phil asked them about it was only to draw attention to the incident. And the snickering (although immature)was more about Luke's reaction, not his handicap. Margie's outburst was uncalled for and IMO yes, she does coddle him. I compare it to how I was towards my kids when they were school age. Laughing at their jokes, building them up, etc.. It just seems like she doesn't treat him like an adult. I have no idea what it would be like to have a special needs kid. But one of my good friends has an 18 year old autistic son, who is at an 8-10 year olds developmental level. In comparison I think my friend expects better manners and self control from her son, than Margie does of Luke.

    .




    I often find myself comparing Margie/Luke to the mother-son team from last time--Dallas and what's her name (like the poster above I erase facts about previous races very quickly).

    It seems that while they were very supportive of each other --they also called each other out on any bs that crept in.

    IMO that is a much more adult relationship to have with an adult child.

  3. #173
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by steppemaster;3418945;
    I often find myself comparing Margie/Luke to the mother-son team from last time--Dallas and what's her name (like the poster above I erase facts about previous races very quickly).

    It seems that while they were very supportive of each other --they also called each other out on any bs that crept in.

    IMO that is a much more adult relationship to have with an adult child.
    Don't forget the logistics of the situation. Luke is deaf. All he feels is someone reaching over him. He has his back turned to that individual, I refuse to call that sister an actual person, indicating she has some kind of humanity. The sisters planned the whole thing (and were proud of harrassing the deaf kid) Luke was just reacting to getting pushed around. Margie said it all when she said that being black, they should realize the effect prejudice has on on people. I was really happy when Margie wouldn't let them get away with what they did to luke and how they laughed at him. They are pretty laughable themselves.

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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by steppemaster;3418654;
    Now that I've seen the face off at the mat--I think Margie was waaay over the top. I'm sure part of it was due to the stress and fatigue of the race.

    But I think when she sees this on tv she will be embarrassed. I don't think she always acts this way.


    It did smack of "Waahh! They're always picking on me/us" though.



    And her insisting on giving Luke all those details over the period of today's installment smacks of trying to get his dander up over a perceived "insult."


    I grew up with people whose major strategy in life was to look for insults so they could have a "poor me" response. It took me some time to see that there were many other more positive ways to approach people and life.

    IMO Margie is not doing Luke--or herself any favors if this is her usual response to any perceived slight. It will take him a lot of work and much time to purge himself of that kind of "Poor me," they're picking on me" attitude and start enjoying life.


    I've been there and had to do it. It can be done--but much easier never to have that drummed into you in the first place.

    (Yes parents doing that to their kids is an issue for me. I only think about it these days when presented with such a clearcut example of it. Or if I find myself regressing to that old attitude in my own life.)
    And I grew up with people who thought the only way to get success was to make fun of and bully those they were competing against. Believe people like those black girls can go a lot of damage with the way the bully themselves thru life. It is sad to read that track and field victories only come from who can trash talk the most, not from pure talent. It's very sad if that is the only way someone can win. Just out of curiosity, what olympic medals did the sisters trash talk their way into winning?

  5. #175
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    The war of words between Margie/Luke and Jen was so immature and blown out of proportion. I think both teams did something wrong and added unnecessary fuel to the fire -- as well as the TAR! Some of the comments were repeated, and this probably exacerbated the public's reaction to the argument.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." ~Anais Nin

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  6. #176
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    I thought both Luke and Jen were at fault. I could see how it could escalate as, during a race such as this, pressure and tension mount.
    The sisters behaved at the mat how they said they were going to earlier in the episode (be calm and laugh at the other side) and how they also reacted in another episode. They even said that they tend to smile / snicker under stress.
    I think Margie got carried away when she brought up the race card. It was totally uncalled for. And, when she called out the sisters, she just looked physically ugly, too, as if her rage had taken over any sanity she had.
    I wasn't pleased when Margie / Luke detoured that couple a few weeks ago. Ithought it was far too early and unnecessary. I still give Luke credit for running this race, but I do find that Margie does overly coddle him and he does come across as bratty sometimes. I think I've ignored it before because I wanted to like them. After last night, I don't like them as much.
    I do like Tammy and Victor. They seem to be "growing" the most in this race.
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  7. #177
    8/2/64 until forever! AZChristian's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    There are many valid points on both sides of the issues raised with the conflict from last night's episode.

    Last year, I had the opportunity to travel to England and France. For me, just being in a foreign country and dealing with the language barrier, different kinds of money, and local customs is stressful. Fortunately, I did have a year of high-school French (more years ago than I will confess), and remembered the most important phrase of all: "Parlez vous Englais?" Most people in France seemed to speak enough English that between using simple words and (polite) gestures, we were able to communicate.

    I can't imagine what it must be like to be on The Amazing Race. Other than the mandatory rest stops, these folks are pretty much out of their element (except last night when Victor and Tammy spoke Mandarin and Tammy had actually been to the city where they were competing in China). They must all be homesick, physically exhausted, and just 100% stressed. Yes, they signed up for it, but the stress is there nonetheless.

    We didn't have any major problems in Europe, other than (sometimes pushy) crowds of tourists with whom I couldn't always communicate. Even so, I don't think I'd want anyone to make judgments about me or my family based on what they may have observed while I was so far out of my comfort zone.

    I think both of the teams who were battling last night had equal culpability for the situation. But they've got enough to deal with in this contest without developing and holding grudges.

  8. #178
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by tfred;3418971;
    And I grew up with people who thought the only way to get success was to make fun of and bully those they were competing against. Believe people like those black girls can go a lot of damage with the way the bully themselves thru life. It is sad to read that track and field victories only come from who can trash talk the most, not from pure talent. It's very sad if that is the only way someone can win. Just out of curiosity, what olympic medals did the sisters trash talk their way into winning?


    Well competition "trash talk' isn't "bullying." It's a part of competing with equals and trying for an edge.

    And if you think that Olympic athletes do NOT do this?--sorry but it is part of psyching the competition out.






    An idea--not referring specifically to anyone's post--but let's think about whether the idea of and the reaction to a WOMAN trash-talking an opponent isn't a bit of sexism worming its way into the discussion?

  9. #179
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Both sides were wrong. Both sides blew it way out of proportion. Jen/Kisha had hard feelings towards Luke/Margie from the leg before when they thought (wrongly) that their cab driver told them wrong directions. Margie/Luke had hard feelings towards Jen/Kisha because of the incorrect assumption that they were laughing at Luke being deaf. I think that they will calm down, rethink the situation and all will learn from it. As far as Luke not being able to "bodycheck" Jen because she is a girl/woman, sorry but I strongly disagree. Women have fought long and hard to be treated as equals, as such we should expect to be treated AS EQUALS. At this point I still like the majority of the remaining teams left and would be happy for any of the 3 to win (sorry to the redheads but I can't root for someone who is as mean to the locals as Cara ? is).

    All of the above is simply my own opinion and is no way, shape or form considered to be fact.

  10. #180
    Miz Smarty Britches queenb's Avatar
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    Re: 4/19 Show Discussion Thread **SPOILERS**

    Quote Originally Posted by meezy;3418722;
    ETA: Jen is 24 and Luke is 22. They're practically the same age, even if the latter comes off like a petulant 14 year old and his mommy coddles him like one. It almost had me fooled until I actually looked up their ages.
    I actually thought Luke was somewhere between 17 and at max, 19-- and a very immature late teen at that. I was shocked to find out he is 22.


    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerDiva;3418539;
    The behavior I did wince at was Luke pounding his fist into his hand, when speaking about what he wanted to do to Jen. Margie should have called him out on that. You can call her a $%^@%,
    but to insinuate you would hit a girl, because she called you a name is not cool.
    I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned that part--it was scary to me--what happens when he has a woman in his life later, and mummy isn't around?
    What will happen when his girlfriend/wife sees him slamming his fist because he's pissed off?
    I don't mind the 'bodycheck'--that was just something that happened during the game. Insinuating that he's like to beat Jen up is another thing entirely.


    As to Kisha and Jen, yes I did hear them say "we like to laugh in peoples faces" but at no time did I ever hear them say a word about Luke's being deaf, or call him any names (related to his disability) , or anything else related to his disability, his looks, his clothes, his mental capacity--nothing of that nature. Margie is the one who made it all about Luke's disability.
    Last edited by queenb; 04-20-2009 at 05:35 PM.
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