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Thread: Charla & Mirna

  1. #401
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwolpert
    It's strange how women seem to have more of a problem with other strong women than men do. It's OK (or expected) if a man acts rude to get what he wants, but not when a woman does? There's a double standard and I see it more and more, even in politics.

    I say "go girl" to Mirna to do whatever it takes to win the race and eliminate other teams (especially "the brothers" and Colin).
    I don't think she's a strong woman--I think she's intolerably rude and has her own double standards. Look at how she expects to cultivate special treatment for her and her cousin and yet simultaneously complains about the assumptions people make about the two of them. Well you can't have it both ways without being two-faced, as well as rude.

    Bob, of "Bob & Joyce" is, I think, the SECOND interviewed contestant in a row here who has revealed a problem with Mirna, and remember... he's an easygoing guy:

    from the FORT interview of Bob & Joyce
    What team did you get along with the best? And the worst?

    Bob: We got along pretty well with everyone. We didn't have a real problem with any of the teams. We worked together with the Moms, and that worked out pretty good on the third leg. We worked together at the airport, waiting in separate lines to try to get the best tickts for each other. There was a moment on the Insider Videos where we had a little scuffle with Mirna. I warned her that if she left the line, she'd lose per place in line. She came back, and I'd moved her bag out of the way and stood in her place in the line. And she went crazy, and started yelling at me. But that didn't really bother me. We were still willing to work with Mirna and Charla, and we really didn't have problems with any of the teams.
    As for my own potential double standard... I think Marshall & Lance are just as bad. How is me finding Charla a jerk any different from me finding them jerks? I am coming to the same conclusion about her as for them about similar behaviors.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  2. #402
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    I say "go girl" to Mirna to do whatever it takes to win the race and eliminate other teams (especially "the brothers" and Colin).
    That is fine. But then you also can't get upset if the guys do whatever it takes to eliminate Charla and Mirna.

    Mirna is the queen of the double standard. "How dare they do that to me, they are criminals, they are disgusting.. blah, blah, blah."

    And then she turns right around and does things that are inconsiderate and rude. I would like her so much more if she said "yeah I am being rude, but this is a race and I want to do what I need to do to win."
    Never Play Leap Frog With A Unicorn

  3. #403
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nairb247
    That is fine. But then you also can't get upset if the guys do whatever it takes to eliminate Charla and Mirna.

    Mirna is the queen of the double standard. "How dare they do that to me, they are criminals, they are disgusting.. blah, blah, blah."

    And then she turns right around and does things that are inconsiderate and rude. I would like her so much more if she said "yeah I am being rude, but this is a race and I want to do what I need to do to win."
    Right. And what's particularly annoying to me, is that the line of logic people use about "strong woman" double standards just ASSUMES that everyone in the world condones the behavior in a man, while scorning it in a woman, just because you might have met one person who did, or saw something annoying and old fashioned on TV. :phhht Well you can be an equal opportunity scorner, as far as I'm concerned, and still be fair.

    Charla and Mirna seem to be the ultimate team where political correctness comes into play. You can't think Charla is slow, or loud, because (gasp!) it would be wrong to say so. You can't think Mirna is annoying or crude because that's a double standard. And besides... they spend so much TIME telling us that they are strong and brave and can do anything, that you know... we have to believe it because WHY WOULD THEY LIE?

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  4. #404
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    Long Post, But Hopefully Some Good Points.

    First, I apologize that I am skipping around in points and this post is not very well constructed, but I am just going down the replies replying to each.

    Krom, I think you need to live a few days as a dwarf. Charla, and Mirna who probably feels protective of her cousin, have had to deal with a lifetime of people likely torturing Charla either by making fun of her, treating her as a child, not respecting her, dismissing her, thinking she's stupid, and everything else.

    This is the reason they take things like alliances and trust very seriously. You might think Mirna was over exaggerating, but if she did not feel he was "criminal" because of Charla, she felt like he was trying to order her around.

    I don't think butting into a conversation is worth getting so worked up about. Like I've said before, people that don't like this team tend to use little things and turn them into huge deals to fuel their hatred.

    I apologize for bringing this board up again, but over at TWoP, I've seen people psychoanalyzing Mirna, because the very thought of butting in is just *inexcusable* and she must burn in the fires of hell for it over there, so I must admit that is partially why I'm replying over here (because I detest that forum).

    Mirna butting in was rude. Colin was rude back. It's not the first time we've seen rude behavior on this show. End of story, really. I suppose I just don't understand how it has turned into a topic worth pages upon pages of discussion.

    Back to my first point, Charla and Mirna take trust very seriously, and I don't think it's neccesarily a bad quality. If someone angers them, they (well, Mirna, usually, though Charla did vocalize her displeasure in an episode 1 taxi ride after getting the ferry ticket) get very personal back with them because they have taken the insult very seriously. Because they take it so personally, they call other people things we normally would not say, and it also probably deals a little bit with how they grew up. Nothing wrong with that.

    When dealing with Mirna pulling her weight, I think she has done plenty. Charla could not do this race alone (while this may be stating the obvious, go with me here) and Mirna could certainly not do this race alone. Mirna is likely a vegan as another poster pointed out, and considering two-thirds of the roadblocks have been eating challenges, Charla is a natural to do them. with carrying the beef, Mirna seems to encourage the thought that Charla is stronger than her, not that there's any reason she couldn't/wouldn't be. I think it is a little stereotypical to assume that Mirna isn't pulling her weight just because she is with a dwarf as much as, say, Kim (who has done nothing at all) and Christie/Nicole (who have done nothing aside from flunking the caviar challenge).

    I mean, why should people get outraged at Mirna for doing one roadblock (out of four since Charla is going into the tomb) when, like I said, have done more than Kim, and were smart enough to pick the person who could handle the food for both roadblocks, unlike Christie and Nicole, who held their teams back. Mirna is obviously very strong willed. Being a vegan and being claustrophobic are not really that uncommon to find in a person and I think Mirna deserves a little bit of credit because she is absolutely forced to do any kind of roadblock involving physical speed regarding the legs.



    At this point I'm rambling. Sorry. On to something different.


    You can't think Charla is slow, or loud, because (gasp!) it would be wrong to say so.
    The only people I've seen assuming this are people that do not like them in the first place. I have never seen anyone specifically say anything derogatory regarding Charla except beating her. (Which people do not hold Colin responsible for his oh-so tactful and thoughtful way of saying "I'm so serious we HAVE to beat the midget!")

    The best thing that has come out of Charla being on TAR, and I mentioned this in my copy/paste of a post on this subject, is that it is okay to mention your dislike of someone not fully able-bodied. Charla is a regular human being, and everyone is open to critisizm. As long as people recognize this, and do not feel like they have to hold back because Charla is a dwarf, then she is accomplishing everything she set out here to do. But please, no one has said you cannot fault them.

    I would like her so much more if she said "yeah I am being rude, but this is a race and I want to do what I need to do to win."
    She might realize this. For example, with Bob and Joyce, she knew they would take her place if she went off, and she did to get on the line for the 9:10 flight. Now when she came back, she yelled at Bob for taking her spot, and got her spot back. I mention this because I see this as a good example of doing what you need to do to win, regardless of being rude. If she was being nice, and considerate, and not doing what she needs to do to win, she likely would have let Bob and Joyce stand there just because they are old and nice people. That she didn't, I think proves that she won't let anything get in her way, which is admirable, though it's true she could be a bit nicer in doing so.

    While her personality is also responsible for this, Mirna is not afraid to stand up for herself and attempt to get a better deal at the cost of angering other teams, and that also shows she will do what ever it takes.
    It's strange how women seem to have more of a problem with other strong women than men do. It's strange how women seem to have more of a problem with other strong women than men do.
    Except if you're Scott on BB5, who I quote (roughly) "those b*tches just don't dare stand up to me like that".

    Actually, I blamed Charla's "dotore" lie for the father-daughter team's elimination since that caused Charla & Mirna to get "priority" waiting list priviledges and the father-daughter weren't able to get on the flight.
    That's really not fair to Mirna and Charla. Jim and Marsha were the second team to the airport, and first in line for the 10:30 tickets. They have no one to blame but themselves for that. Besides, Brandon and Nicole might have gotten the tickets too.

    Mirna has to be the stronger partner but clearly isn't.
    Again, another stereotype. The only thing Mirna has an advantage on Charla is her running speed. There is no reason Charla cannot be the stronger partner.


    Hope I do not sound too forceful here. If I did, I apologize. Just trying to share my thoughts.

    ~Grover
    Last edited by Grover; 07-30-2004 at 06:36 PM.

  5. #405
    FORT Fogey Leftcoaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nairb247
    Mirna has to be the stronger partner but clearly isn't.
    I'm missing the necessity of Mirna having to be the stronger partner in her team. Perhaps you and I are thinking of differing definitions of stronger, nairb247. I've no doubt there are certain things that Mirna would be better at, at least in theory, due to her pysical characteristics when compared to Charna, but it seems to me that Charna has probably dealt with as much or more in her life of a character buliding nature.

    Charna seems so far the stronger member of her team, both mentally AND physically, IMO.

  6. #406
    daydream believer oneTVslave's Avatar
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    Good post, Grover. I think C&M are my favorite team -to watch- because they have colorful personalities, sometimes nice, sometimes bitchy, always outspoken - basically they are human. Nobody says they are perfect, and we certainly know that the race can bring out some not-too-pleasant qualities in people. I don't think that I would want to be best friends with them, but if/when they are eliminated, the show won't be quite as interesting, in my opinion. Some of the other teams are kind of bland.
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwolpert
    It's strange how women seem to have more of a problem with other strong women than men do. It's OK (or expected) if a man acts rude to get what he wants, but not when a woman does? There's a double standard and I see it more and more, even in politics.
    I follow what your saying, and tend to agree up to a certain point, bwolpert. but I've kinda missed or underappreciated whatever it is that is supposed to make Mirna a member of the strong womans club.

    The best assertive act I've seen her perform so far was interjecting for information at the bus station rather than passively waiting 'her turn.'

    Other than that, could you nudge my memory as to just how Mirna has demonstated that she possesses strength?

  8. #408
    Nevermind Lotuslander's Avatar
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    Good post Grover, I agree. Dennis and Ereka played the polite card after the airline debacle, and let other teams take taxi's first,and then were eliminated. To me, Colin displayed more rudeness, by his complaint to Mirna about talking to the bus employee. She had every right to talk to him, and if the employee chose to to speak to Mirna, that was his decision, not Colins. I've noticed, in general though, people, , seem to have harsher criticism for women on reality shows . Nicole and Christie defer to their male partners like Stepford wives, but, I've noticed, that Christie is seething with repressed rage towards him. Mirna did, go a little overboard with her 'criminal' comment, but I liked how her sense of humour came in to play with the Pizza brothers, and the 'ready to rumble in Russia comment' to them. They simply are the most entertaining team, and yes not perfect, but there in a heightened enviroment and of course some reactions are going to be overblown. Mirna shows her strength by standing her ground, defending her rights, and refusing to be intimidated by anyone!

  9. #409
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    Actually, I blamed Charla's "dotore" lie for the father-daughter team's elimination since that caused Charla & Mirna to get "priority" waiting list priviledges and the father-daughter weren't able to get on the flight.


    That's really not fair to Mirna and Charla. Jim and Marsha were the second team to the airport, and first in line for the 10:30 tickets. They have no one to blame but themselves for that. Besides, Brandon and Nicole might have gotten the tickets too.
    But Jim and Marsha were the first ones to be put on stand by and then got bumped when Colin asked for priority and Charla used her doctor lie. At least that is what I gathered. I could be wrong, but weren't they the first ones to be put on stand by?


    I don't think butting into a conversation is worth getting so worked up about. Like I've said before, people that don't like this team tend to use little things and turn them into huge deals to fuel their hatred.
    That isn't true. I liked this team. I was all for Charla. I actually really like Charla. I just think Mirna is being hypocritical thats all. Just like I am sick of Brandon and the whole "God is on our side" thing, I am sick of Mirna calling other teams names and then getting mad when they say things to her. I really started off the race thinking they were cool, Mirna made me laugh, it really wasn't until the third episode that I started to change my opinion of her.

    They are still great for the show and I am sure they are helping to bring up the ratings.

    Mirna has to be the stronger partner but clearly isn't.
    I stand corrected on this statement. I don't think she has to be stronger, but she is being portrayed as the "leader" and decision maker of this team. Thus, you would think that she would be stronger. Now if she is a vegan and doesn't eat those types of foods, then I don't blame her for not doing them. Just like I don't fault Brandon for choosing not to drink.


    Nobody says they are perfect, and we certainly know that the race can bring out some not-too-pleasant qualities in people. I don't think that I would want to be best friends with them, but if/when they are eliminated, the show won't be quite as interesting, in my opinion. Some of the other teams are kind of bland.
    That is what I have been saying all along. Why can you say it? and noone disagrees. They are great racers but they aren't perfect. What bugs me is Mirna calling people "criminals" and "disgusting" and then turning right around and acting like just everyone else. It is a race, do what you need to do to win, but don't act like you are innocent from fault.

    That is all I ever tried to say and so many people just won't admit that during the race that is how they are.

    It is way past my bed time.
    Last edited by nairb247; 07-31-2004 at 01:25 AM.
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  10. #410
    aka LAXguy LAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwolpert
    I say "go girl" to Mirna to do whatever it takes to win the race and eliminate other teams (especially "the brothers" and Colin).
    Quote Originally Posted by nairb247
    That is fine. But then you also can't get upset if the guys do whatever it takes to eliminate Charla and Mirna.

    Mirna is the queen of the double standard. "How dare they do that to me, they are criminals, they are disgusting.. blah, blah, blah."

    And then she turns right around and does things that are inconsiderate and rude.

    Very well said, nairb247! You've summed up the problem I have with Mirna perfectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grover
    Like I've said before, people that don't like this team tend to use little things and turn them into huge deals to fuel their hatred.
    That's no different than people who do like this (or any other) team ignoring or making excuses for their behavior in order to continue their boosterism.

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