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Thread: Rules for the Fast Forward

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo
    There is one good reason to have NELs. If there were not, you'd either have to cut the number of legs or add teams. Adding teams is not a good idea - it's already not easy to keep track of all the teams at the start and adding more would just complicate the problem.

    Decreasing the number of legs would not work either. The reason it's 13 legs is that a standard TV season is 13 episodes. One leg, one 1-hour episode.
    I am sure they can come up with something else to satisfy "the standard 13 episodes requirement". They could easily add a reunion show, a recap show in mid season or hey.. how about a longer two hours episodes at the beginning of the season since there are so many teams to cover ? If they have to have NELs, I think they should have them in the beginning of the season so we get a chance to get to know all 10 teams. I just don't think it is fair to have NELs when there are only five teams or less left.

  2. #22
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    Another thing, they should really need to change the format of the race to fit the need of all contestants. It is set up the way that there is no chance for old/less physical teams to win the race. Next TAR, they either get rid of old/less physical people and put all young physical people for the race or change the race so that it doesn't have give an advantage to the phyiscal teams.

    P.S. TAR rule is so inconsistent. Earlier in the race, they only allow two teams to get on to one flight but in the latter of the race, they let everybody on the same flight. What's up with that ?
    Last edited by RubenFan#205; 08-21-2003 at 01:05 PM.

  3. #23
    COMBAT MISSIONS junkie! BravoFan's Avatar
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    "It's not fair" is used an awful lot by people when they are displeased by something. Doesn't make it true.

    Not understanding why something is done, and not liking it does not make it "not fair."

    The fortunate thing about television is that if you don't like something you can simply not watch it.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BravoFan
    "It's not fair" is used an awful lot by people when they are displeased by something. Doesn't make it true.

    Not understanding why something is done, and not liking it does not make it "not fair."

    The fortunate thing about television is that if you don't like something you can simply not watch it.

    Thank You! Finally someone I agree with

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BravoFan
    "It's not fair" is used an awful lot by people when they are displeased by something. Doesn't make it true.
    and your point is ?? All I am saying that it is not fair. Feel free to disagree with me, I didn't say that what I said is absolately "true" for everybody

    Not understanding why something is done, and not liking it does not make it "not fair."
    Okay.. wise one. may be you can explain to me "why" something is done then.

    The fortunate thing about television is that if you don't like something you can simply not watch it.
    It's true... I can stop watching.. But I could also still keep watching and complaint about it at the same time. What's wrong with complainting anyway ?? May be they will improve the show next season because some one complainted!

  6. #26
    Premium Member CantGetEnufTAR's Avatar
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    ruben... Here is what the deal is with the "limited availability" flights. The very first episode is the only time that I can remember this season that had limited availability. There were 3 different flight options to go from LAX to Milan. Each one could hold 4 of the 12 teams. This is done to spread the teams out from the very beginning. Just so you know, since you have told us that this is your first season of TAR, it has been this way in all previous TARs as well. The first flights are always limited availability. Usually also in the first episode there is a second form of transportation (charter flight, charter bus, charter boat) that has limited staggered availability. Same as in TAR4 with the buses from Milan to Cortina in episode 1. But, after episode 1 each season it is VERY RARE that they impose any limited availability on transport of any sort. I know in TAR3 fairly early they also had charter buses to Scotland, but they weren't truly limited. If all the teams had shown up early enough they could have all gotten on the first one. I think 3-4 teams made the first one, 1 team made the second one, and 2-3 teams made the third one. So, I totally 100% understand how someone (yourself) being new to TAR could wonder why earlier there was limits, but now there is not. It is standard TAR episode 1 procedure, but not usually after episode 1. These teams should have expected this had they followed previous TARs. Hope that clears it up a bit.

    And, to ruben... again. Regarding old/out-of-shape contestants. Consider this... While the older racers this season did not make it too far, that has not been the case in the past. And, you yourself said earlier in the race you were rooting for Jon & Al and for Steve & Dave, those were two of the oldest teams this season. You wouldn't've wanted those two teams replaced with MORE models, would you?

    In TAR1, one of the nicest couples were the oldest ones, they made it 4-5 legs. And, on the 3rd place team they were both about 50 yrs olds.

    In TAR2, the older teams did not do as well.

    In TAR3, 2nd place Teri & Ian were both about 50 yrs old, the oldest ones in TAR3. 3rd place Ken & Gerard were the second oldest ones in TAR3. Both of those "older" teams not only did very well, but provided some of the best (or at least most memorable) moments of the race.


    And finally, to ruben... and others, I tend to agree that the timing of NEL is unfortunate. I am one that does not mind them in general, but don't like the timing of them. I'd rather see them used earlier in the race. Something like every other leg in the beginning of the race would be better for "fairness" and for fans of the show. Leg 1=NEL. Leg 2=elim. Leg 3=NEL. Leg 4=elim. Legs 5-11=elim. Leg 12=NEL. Leg 13=finale.

    That would be better for so many reasons. First, think about a few things. We always complain we don't get to know the early-exit teams. Well, my scenario would keep every team in the race at least a little bit longer.

    Plus, one of the biggest complaints is NEL saving teams that are unpopular. Well, in my scenario the NEL are in Legs 1 and 3. No teams are THAT unpopular after so little time--at least not usually.

    My 3rd NEL in Leg 12 really just means we get to see 2 full legs of the top 3 teams, just like we do now. It's not REALLY a NEL. We trimmed it down to the final 3 teams the leg before anyway. We are just running an extra long final leg, split into two legs. The best way to present this to the viewers is, of course, as a two hour finale, with hour one (leg 12) technically being NEL, and hour two (leg 13) being the finish line.

    And, since this thread is supposed to be about FF. I really think the FF as it currently is, is just about fine. It could withstand a little tweaking, but it isn't really necessary. I think it is a bit silly to have a FF in the first few legs of the race. TAR purposely spreads the teams out, which is fine, but then it becomes clear that one team in the "last" group will get axed first. Why let one of them FF ahead? Let them all race it out to see who goes first. I definitely think that after a certain leg (currently it is leg 11) the FF should not be available. I'd be fine if it was only available through leg 9 or 10. Once you get to the top 3-4-5 teams, they should have to work through everything equally, without anyone getting free passes. But, like I said, these are just my minor complaints that I have with FF--but it is basically fine as is.

  7. #27
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
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    Most people here, myself included, are having trouble understanding Ruben's claim that a particular rule is "unfair", especially when it applies to every contestant! Ok, well let's see if such a rule is even possible.

    I can think of a rule, or a race trend, that applies to all teams that could be labeled as "unfair". For example if every challenge was completely based on physical abilities i.e. lifting weights or pulling carts, then one might be able to say that aspect of the production is unfair to women/"coed" teams. In general, women will have a tougher time with such events.

    That race trend however has to do with an inherent difference between certain teams that they have no control over (sex, gender) and has shown to be beneficial to one over the other, generally.

    When it comes to brains and strategy, however, I think it is fair to say that everyone, men and women, young and old, are generally on equal ground. No specific group is more likely to be more intelligent than another.

    And so that is why we are having trouble understand why fast forwards could in ANY way be unfair. They are entirely reliant on two factors: luck and strategy. Both of those factors are indiscriminant of team/age/gender. Provided that the contestants all know the rules prior to the race, and have equal access to fast forwards, and are allowed to think freely, the fast forwards can be nothing but fair.

    Same goes for the NEL's. All teams have equal "access" to them. The producers don't wait to see if a liked or not-liked team arrives last to decide if it's an NEL. So how can it possible be unfair?

    Also, we do admit luck is a factor in FF's and NEL's. And we are all aware of people having bad luck labeling that bad luck as "unfair". I did it too when I was a kid. I would roll a bad die at Monopoly, land on someone else's Park Place and be ruined. Of course, I would think it unfair because it happened to me. But I was dead wrong, the rule is fair, because it gives no advantage to any person.

  8. #28
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    to the 2 posts above.


    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    It's true... I can stop watching.. But I could also still keep watching and complaint about it at the same time. What's wrong with complainting anyway ?? May be they will improve the show next season because some one complainted!
    I'd rather have someone who has something good to say about the show and also complains/suggests. Nothing is wrong about complaining if you have a good and solid point to make, not just because you think so. And no, the show will not improve if someone watches the show just to complain. Why would they improve...er change the show just to please someone who doesn't like their show anyway? And the show is good the way it is, that's why it's been nominated for an Emmy.
    Last edited by invisible; 08-21-2003 at 05:34 PM.

  9. #29
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    CantGetEnufTAR, I can remember for at least two occasions where they limited the flight to two teams max besides the first episode. That's why I am confused why they don't have that rule later in the race.

    Secondly, Al and Jon are not that old plus they are in relatively good physical condition, I would category them as a "physical team". As for old/less physical teams, I meant like Steve and Dave or Debra and Steve or Steve from (Steve and Josh's team). I would rather not see them on the show. What's the point of rooting for them when I know they aren't going to last ?

    And I COMPLETELY agreed with you to have NELs in earlier rounds! That way we get to see more of all of the teams on TV.

    As for the FF, I would take the either take the FF completely out to make it fair for everybody or leave it in until the end. "Teams must decide when is the most advantages to use the fast forward".. as it should be.


    To Zaius,

    I can think of a rule, or a race trend, that applies to all teams that could be labeled as "unfair". For example if every challenge was completely based on physical abilities i.e. lifting weights or pulling carts, then one might be able to say that aspect of the production is unfair to women/"coed" teams. In general, women will have a tougher time with such events


    And so that is why we are having trouble understand why fast forwards could in ANY way be unfair
    I don't have as much problem with ff than I have with NELs. I just don't see a reason why they wouldn't allow ff in 12th leg of the race ? And I think they should reward any team that didn't need to use FF and still make it to the end.

    Same goes for the NEL's. All teams have equal "access" to them. The producers don't wait to see if a liked or not-liked team arrives last to decide if it's an NEL. So how can it possible be unfair?
    .

    This I have problem with. I think if you must have NELs, let them be in the earlier rounds of the race. I mean when there are five teams or less left, every decisions that they made, could and should decide if they are still in the race or not. I don't like the fact that they can be saved by NELs later rounds of the race. I think we all can agree that "luck" does play a huge role in winning TAR or not but let the "luck" factor be as in like "bad weather, train delay or traffic".. you know stuffs that none of them have any control of. Why add in "luck" factor from NELs ?
    Last edited by RubenFan#205; 08-21-2003 at 05:57 PM.

  10. #30
    COMBAT MISSIONS junkie! BravoFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius
    Provided that the contestants all know the rules prior to the race, and have equal access to fast forwards, and are allowed to think freely, the fast forwards can be nothing but fair.

    Same goes for the NEL's. All teams have equal "access" to them. The producers don't wait to see if a liked or not-liked team arrives last to decide if it's an NEL. So how can it possible be unfair?.
    Zaius, I don't think I say it enough, but you are simply brilliant.
    "They can only edit what you give them. They cannot manufacture a fictional character out of thin air." (Bill Rancic - 4/04)
    Regarding editing reality TV: "You can't edit IN a bad personality." ("Cali"-11/02)
    BB8 - A "conveyor belt of human garbage." ("Pono" - 9/07)

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