Margie & Luke - TAR 14

[jadewarlock]

Those were only 2 examples of Luke's constant frustration that I could come up while typing my previous post. They weren't the only times he has been impatient and infuriated. Actually, it has been continuous. Like steppemaster mentioned earlier, there is something offputting about his attitude. Like I said before, I fully expected these racers to become stressed out during the competition. But with Luke (and Jaime, but I'm not talking about her right now), he just seems to take it to a higher level than everyone else.



Margie/Luke stabbed Amanda/Kris in the back, even though A/K were already in the back of the pack and didn't really have a chance to catch up. Likewise, Tammy/Victor backstabbed Margie/Luke after they agreed to go to the same detour. T/V were never in an alliance with the two of them; they simply had an understanding that they would be going to the same detour, preferably at the same time. But both Tammy and Victor know that this is a race, and that they have to do anything to win it. It was understandable for Margie/Luke to be mad about T/V leaving them behind, but then again, they also know the name of the game since they have shown they will do anything to win the race (as shown by them using the u-turn). So it was kind of hypocritical to react the way they did since they were in the same position as T/V in the previous leg. That's where I was coming from.

I've noticed that Luke takes everything to a different level of the game - the celebrations, frustrations, etc. To me, I feel that a lot of it is because he's enjoying the game and the accomplishments of it - as well as the frustrations when it's rough.

As far as the U-Turn - why are people saying that Margie and Luke stabbed Kris and Amanda in the back? I know that they were hurt by M&L's decision; however, anyone who plays these reality shows should know that even the nicest people in the world are going to be cutthroat at times in order to win the game. And, in that leg the tasks were at a point that one could still quickly gain back any time they lost in the detours with the coaster (we saw Luke lose a lot of time with the Chekov part). I feel that Kris and Amanda were more bitter that they got outplayed than anything.

[jadewarlock]

I posted this on the spoiler thread for the 3/29 show but it answers IMO some questions being asked here--

(This was in response to someoe's asking what would Luke do if Margie ended up in the hospital?)


We've discussed this kind of thing on the Marge/Luke thread and the issue is that he should be able to get along in the hearing world by learning how to--for example--read lips. Also--he can write questions down and other people can write replies.

He's not helpless and IMO it's a shame to try to treat him as though he were helpless. Pitying people who are otherly-abled and treating them as though they are not completely competent to get along in the world does them no favors.


ETA--if he's a Deaf person who chooses to live only within the Deaf Culture (and therefore does not read lips or even write out questions etc for hearing people and chooses to have only limited exposiue to the hearing) then he should not have chosen to be in this race.



I don't dislike Luke/Marge but I do dislike people thinking they should get special treatment because he is Deaf--as we saw during the "Chekhov" task.

I agree and disagree to a point - while it does help, some deaf people choose to not read lips for several reasons. Some people speak too quickly and get frustrated by the deaf person for asking them to slow down (and then insult them), and sometimes people intentionally say things fast that the person is left out. I have a friend who is deaf and can read lips, but she would get on to me for "mumbling" a lot - or standing just too far behind her peripheral vision to be able to "hear" me.

We also do not know as far as the writing on a notepad. Are the racers allowed to have pen and paper with them? Plus, on the flip side having pen and paper is risky in a race in that there is a chance that say Margie or someone in the country they were in wrote down information and it got lost, another team could pick it up, get that information and Margie and Luke would lose time. By just signing, however, they could keep clues more secretive and then the risk is lowered with them losing information.

IMHO, given the risks involved in this race - such as the possibility of a roadblock where there could be driving in a country alone - I don't think CBS would've allowed them to compete if he chose to live in the Deaf Culture (don't read lips or pass notes). There's too much liability at stake should he and Margie be separated by Roadblock or oddity in the race itself and either got hurt.

I think that Luke does at least pass notes when he needs to so he can communicate. IMHO, Margie would hopefully require him to at least do that because she can't be around all the time to help translate. But, when you have your mom completely pass out in your arms you're going to panic and think more of your mom's health and want them to help her out right that second until she regains consciousness and says she's all right herself than write out "What is wrong?" and other questions.

[steppemaster]

Jadewarlock--I pretty much agree with you except about this--if he applied to be in a race with non-Deaf people then he should be prepared to do whatever is needed to win.

I don't think we do anyone any favors by treating them differently.

I point to the two Little People who not only are not asking for any special treatmant but have been wiping up the floor with a lot of other teams.

IMO it's a difference in attitude.



They obviously care about each other and they also challenge each other too.

I don't see Margie doing that for Luke.

I see an anxious mother who seems to want to coddle her son.

That doesn't do him any favors IMO.



Being an athlete and competing against othher athletes I can tell you that almost everyone has some sort of "drawback" or lack of ability or "problem" they have to overcome.

When I first started training and was upset because of certain physical drawbacks I had, my trainer told me that winning was 5% ability and 95% attitude.

And he's been right.


Seeing Luke dependent on his mother to communicate with the rest of the world AND his wanting to be in a race with non-Deaf people in a non-Deaf world creates a real dichotomy and conflict.

IMO LUke has to choose--is he going to do whatever it takes to be independent? Or is he going to always be relying on his Mom to help him get by?

He's in his 20s--most men are independent of their parents by that time.



Btw--most Deaf people I know carry notepaper and pen in order to communicate in less than ideal circumstances when they leave Deaf culture and go out into the hearing world.

My impression--growing stronger every week--is that Margie is trying to keep Luke dependent on her.

[prhoshay]

Now, I see a lot of men in their 20s (which really means 'in their teens') who have moved back in with their parent(s). The women are, usually, a different story.

[Rattus]

You mention Luke's frustration as a reason you dislike him but that's only been 2 instances. His not liking pie being thrown at him is perfectly understandable. Some people don't like to get sticky.

Regarding the pie in the face frustration, I would like to mention something that I posted at the time we originally saw this occurrence. I am deaf in only one ear, but I can get a bit more upset than one might consider to be normal if my vision is impeded in any way. For someone who is completely deaf and has to rely entirely on their vision in order to interact with the world, it might border on the terrifying to have shards of crust thrown at your eyes and lose your eyesight entirely, no matter how briefly.

[steppemaster]

Now, I see a lot of men in their 20s (which really means 'in their teens') who have moved back in with their parent(s). The women are, usually, a different story.

At the same time there are men in their twenties who are police officers and physicians and surgeons and EMTs and First Responders of all kinds.

I'm not buying that Luke is so young that he'd fall apart becase his mother got sick.

IMO some people are seeing him as a teenager--from some of the comments about things like his frustration with the Chekhov challenge--instead of as a man in his twenties.

It is my personal opinion that Margie is one of them.


It's also my personal opinion (based on observations) that people tend to behave the way they are expected to. If a man is expected to behave responsibly he will. If he's expected to act like an overgrown child then he most likely will do so.

[CrossingGuard]

Regarding the pie in the face frustration, I would like to mention something that I posted at the time we originally saw this occurrence. I am deaf in only one ear, but I can get a bit more upset than one might consider to be normal if my vision is impeded in any way. For someone who is completely deaf and has to rely entirely on their vision in order to interact with the world, it might border on the terrifying to have shards of crust thrown at your eyes and lose your eyesight entirely, no matter how briefly.

I don't think his frustration was out of being worried about his vision. All he had to do was rub the cake off his face, and he was fine. His facial expressions at the time said, "I don't like this, let's just get this done now!" IIRC, Margie was trying to convine him to have more fun with the task, but he wouldn't concede.

As far as the U-Turn - why are people saying that Margie and Luke stabbed Kris and Amanda in the back? I know that they were hurt by M&L's decision; however, anyone who plays these reality shows should know that even the nicest people in the world are going to be cutthroat at times in order to win the game. And, in that leg the tasks were at a point that one could still quickly gain back any time they lost in the detours with the coaster (we saw Luke lose a lot of time with the Chekov part). I feel that Kris and Amanda were more bitter that they got outplayed than anything.

That's part of my point though! I guess I don't make my stance clear enough.

I'm fine with the cutthroat game. People are never holier-than-thou all the time, and Margie/Luke's decision to u-turn was a fine decision of this. My problem was when the tables were turned the next leg, where T/V were the backstabbers and M/L the backstabb-ees, M/L reacted as though a cutthroat game should not be allowed. I understood why they were mad as I would be also if another team turned they backs on me, but they were in T/V's position just a while ago. I would have thought that would have reacted better than they did, and because they were a bit outlandish, I considered it to be hypocritical. They, of all people, should have known that people will do anything to get that million.

As for everyone's ability to catch up on that leg, I'm really not sure about that. If done correctly, the cart task would be done in under 4 minutes. As for the puzzle, Chekhov is a relatively well-known name, so for some teams, they were able to breeze through it. For the others who had not a clue about who he was, it shouldn't take more than 5-7 min figuring it out as they had the letters right in front of them. All they had to do was rearrange them into a Russian-sounding name and make it look reasonable (nothing like KHCEOVH). I doubt that Luke took that long on the task at hand. Maybe 10 min max. But the episode made it look as if he spent an hour on it, which I highly doubt. They spent a lot of time focusing on Luke's struggles, which was yet again another time they spent a lot of time focusing solely on Luke.

He's not helpless and IMO it's a shame to try to treat him as though he were helpless. Pitying people who are otherly-abled and treating them as though they are not completely competent to get along in the world does them no favors.

ITA! He's deaf, so what? We all have our less-than-perfect qualities that hold us back, and while his disability is a bit more serious than, say, being short, it's nothing impossible to get through. I feel that sometimes, he is treated as inferior by others when he totally isn't. I may not be a fan of his, but he's able-bodied person. It sucks that he gets pitied more than he should.

[Rattus]

I don't think his frustration was out of being worried about his vision. All he had to do was rub the cake off his face, and he was fine. His facial expressions at the time said, "I don't like this, let's just get this done now!" IIRC, Margie was trying to convine him to have more fun with the task, but he wouldn't concede.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Hearing loss will make you much more panicky about any potential damage to your eyes, or vision loss, no matter how brief. Nothing on earth could make me enjoy myself while having anything, innocuous or not, thrown at my eyes.

[CrossingGuard]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Hearing loss will make you much more panicky about any potential damage to your eyes, or vision loss, no matter how brief. Nothing on earth could make me enjoy myself while having anything, innocuous or not, thrown at my eyes.

It's alright, a lot of people have been disagreeing with me lately.

There's really no way of knowing if he was frustrated because of the potential vision-loss or because of his annoyance with the task. We can only assume. But if it really was because of the vision-loss, then don't you think the show would have mentioned that? I mean, the show likes to point out every single thing that Luke has troubles with in terms of his disability, why not point out this one also?

And personally, I think this looks like a PO'd face:



I took that screencap when he was rolling his eyes. The rolling eyes was proof enough for me that he was annoyed with the task, which is where his frustration came from. Also, notice how there's no cake in his eyes.

[prhoshay]

There is a part of me that would like to see people deal with Luke's disability for only 24-48 hours, and see just how it might affect their viewpoints after it was over. Luke's got the hearing issue, plus all of the other regular emotions that everybody else has. It's OK for him to be annoyed with something that he really doesn't like. Aren't we all?

And mothers can be a curse to their sons, whether they are disabled or not. We tend to mollycoddle them to a fault, sometimes. I can't help but wonder where Luke's dad is, not that it would make any difference.